5 ms·

It's not that solar cannot scale as is, it simply cannot scale as a power grid (see frequency sync issue as an example, even in day time). As I said in the pre

by jacklbk 10d ago

It's not that solar cannot scale as is, it simply cannot scale as a power grid (see frequency sync issue as an example, even in day time). As I said in the previous comment, you need alternate sources to maintain the power grid, even in day time. And no, battery is not a good option for it because it is very expensive. Using a coal/gas/nuclear station to maintain the grid in both day time and night time is the best option you have right now. Solar is cheap if you only look at the panels and how much energy it produces. It is not cheap if you look at the whole grid, which is something omitted from reports you see. I'm not against solar/wind. I'm just against it as the major source. 20-30% seems to be a good value for it. > There was a time many decades ago to deploy nuclear at scale. Fossil fuel shills used 'environmentalists' to shut down all progress of nuclear. Now, they use nuclear again to slow down solar and wind. Just wait 30 - 50 years, we'll have a proper solution. The best time to start was decades ago. The second best time is now. Look at France, they have nuclear and they have energy security. Look at Germany and how foolish they were to deprecate all nuclear stations. Australia has less than 10% solar/wind. Seems reasonable to me. China is an exception, because they have the full pipeline to build batteries, panels. Which country has the full pipeline? Relying on China for panels & batteries for energy security? Huh?

geggo98 10d ago
> Look at France, they have nuclear and they have energy security. Look at Germany and how foolish they were to deprecate all nuclear stations. They both depend on Russia, one for liquid gas the other for nuclear fuel [1]. They are quite similar on energy security. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel_cycle_in_France#Uranium_imports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel_cycle_in_France#U...
hbd-investor 8d ago
Lets address your claims line by lines >It's not that solar cannot scale as is, it simply cannot scale as a power grid Grid forming inverters have solved all your claims >Solar is cheap if you only look at the panels and how much energy it produces. It is not cheap if you look at the whole grid, which is something omitted from reports you see. This is untrue, the math conclusively proves your claims wrong, the solar industry produces a KWH for cheaper than any other source. All the costs from harvesting raw material, making solar panels from raw material, building batteries, building grid forming inverters etc... are all captured. In the final cost in how much that producer sells a KWH for Companies that operate solar panels and sell the KWH produced are able to undercut all other power generation companies using other methods. Fossil fuels are massively subsidized compared to solar companies Fossil fuels are subsidized by public transportation infrastructure to move their fossil fuels, special tax writeoffs, get to lease land that has oil for dirt cheap from the government. They also get special payments from the government even when they don't produce power, IMF data also shows far more direct subsidies. Furthermore the trillions we spent on the Iraq war, and now the Iran war are being subsidized by the government that aren't being reflected in the price per KWH of a operator selling KWH generated by fossil fuels (If the oil companies had to use their own profits to pay for war). Oil companies also don't have to pay for negative externalities for exhaust fumes, and dumping waste into the water. >Relying on China for panels & batteries for energy security? China cannot cut off panels and batteries, these are commodities, these things are produced and sold in such large numbers that there is no possible way to track down or monitor such information. These are not Jet Engines, nuclear centrifuges, advanced military microchips, Lithography machines, Rare Earth There are only a handful of companies that buy rare earth, they are low volume, highly specialized (Hence possible to cut off) While there are 1,000,000x more companies that buy their panels and inverters from china. Every single gas station, Every single convenience store, Every single grocery store, Every walmart, Every mcdonalds, Every auto repair shop, Every corporate building, Every one with a parking lot etc... would be a potential customer to buy solar panels, and batteries and install their system themselves. They can cut off Rare Earth because theres a handful of companies in the US that can actually use them. While there are millions of companies in the US buying batteries and/or solar panels. Once a ship leaves with 50,000 panels theres no tracking them. BTW China produces 1 billion solar panels a year!

by jacklbk 10d ago

geggo98 10d ago

> Look at France, they have nuclear and they have energy security. Look at Germany and how foolish they were to deprecate all nuclear stations. They both depend on Russia, one for liquid gas the other for nuclear fuel [1]. They are quite similar on energy security. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel_cycle_in_France#Uranium_imports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel_cycle_in_France#U...

hbd-investor 8d ago

Lets address your claims line by lines >It's not that solar cannot scale as is, it simply cannot scale as a power grid Grid forming inverters have solved all your claims >Solar is cheap if you only look at the panels and how much energy it produces. It is not cheap if you look at the whole grid, which is something omitted from reports you see. This is untrue, the math conclusively proves your claims wrong, the solar industry produces a KWH for cheaper than any other source. All the costs from harvesting raw material, making solar panels from raw material, building batteries, building grid forming inverters etc... are all captured. In the final cost in how much that producer sells a KWH for Companies that operate solar panels and sell the KWH produced are able to undercut all other power generation companies using other methods. Fossil fuels are massively subsidized compared to solar companies Fossil fuels are subsidized by public transportation infrastructure to move their fossil fuels, special tax writeoffs, get to lease land that has oil for dirt cheap from the government. They also get special payments from the government even when they don't produce power, IMF data also shows far more direct subsidies. Furthermore the trillions we spent on the Iraq war, and now the Iran war are being subsidized by the government that aren't being reflected in the price per KWH of a operator selling KWH generated by fossil fuels (If the oil companies had to use their own profits to pay for war). Oil companies also don't have to pay for negative externalities for exhaust fumes, and dumping waste into the water. >Relying on China for panels & batteries for energy security? China cannot cut off panels and batteries, these are commodities, these things are produced and sold in such large numbers that there is no possible way to track down or monitor such information. These are not Jet Engines, nuclear centrifuges, advanced military microchips, Lithography machines, Rare Earth There are only a handful of companies that buy rare earth, they are low volume, highly specialized (Hence possible to cut off) While there are 1,000,000x more companies that buy their panels and inverters from china. Every single gas station, Every single convenience store, Every single grocery store, Every walmart, Every mcdonalds, Every auto repair shop, Every corporate building, Every one with a parking lot etc... would be a potential customer to buy solar panels, and batteries and install their system themselves. They can cut off Rare Earth because theres a handful of companies in the US that can actually use them. While there are millions of companies in the US buying batteries and/or solar panels. Once a ship leaves with 50,000 panels theres no tracking them. BTW China produces 1 billion solar panels a year!