5 ms·

You missed the point. The example asked for was this: "I'm not aware of any sale of a US weapons system containing European parts being blocked by any European

You missed the point. The example asked for was this: "I'm not aware of any sale of a US weapons system containing European parts being blocked by any European government." That would be something like "Belgium says the USA can't sell F-35s to Israel because the wings are Belgian-made" similar to how the USA prevents ASML from selling their machines to China.

spwa4 10d ago
Oh that's what you want. In the clusterfuck with the Turkey involuntary withdrawal from the F35 program half the treaties were renegotiated (you see, can't have any Turk produce weapons unless he's a "genius", that would not be fair. In other news: the Turkish definition of genius is mostly being the son in law of Erdogan [1]) I believe this agreement is part of the restructuring after that cluster... Note that the agreement is both about production and buying. [2] "Finland has required extensive domestic participation, with industrial cooperation valued at a minimum of 30 percent of the contract price of procuring 64 F-35A fighters. Under the agreement, Finnish firms will produce the F-35’s forward fuselage structures, including components intended for export aircraft. The agreement also includes ..." As to how the EU is involved: https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-defence-industry/european-defence-fund-edf-official-webpage-european-commission_en https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-defence-indus... (ie. that's where you go to ask for loans to start a factory for making F35 components, they have a page listing the deals ... somewhere). Note that this is one of the EU institutions that isn't in the budget (well, the loans aren't). They're not spending tax money to make those loans, they're printing money to make those loans. So the Finnish government is making this deal, including details on export (and this is obviously weapons exports). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sel%C3%A7uk_Bayraktar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sel%C3%A7uk_Bayraktar [2] https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/finland-leading-manufacturer-F35 https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/finland-leading-ma...
- dinfinity 9d ago
  How is it an example of European governments preventing American weapons from being sold? Are you saying the Finns unilaterally decided that Turkey can't have F-35s, even if the USA wants to sell F-35s to them?
  - spwa4 9d ago
    You misunderstand. Everything is prevented by law, with the purpose to make any change in production involve negotiations with the government, who then negotiates weapons/jobs/local production/... Without those negotiations, and the resulting exceptions to the law nothing can be sold, even dual use items are restricted. And, of course, the other side of that coin: weapons export regulation is Europe is not something that is meant to actually prevent weapons export. Rather it is used like a company policy: it makes sure everyone regularly has to give the government something they want. Which is, to put it mildly, not how politicians present those laws.
    - dinfinity 9d ago
      No, you misunderstand. You keep talking about things irrelevant to the key point. Look at the political pressure the USA puts on ASML in the Netherlands to prevent them from selling certain products to China because those machines contain some American parts. The question is explicitly when the reverse has happened, not some general info about European weapon exports or legislation.

spwa4 10d ago

Oh that's what you want. In the clusterfuck with the Turkey involuntary withdrawal from the F35 program half the treaties were renegotiated (you see, can't have any Turk produce weapons unless he's a "genius", that would not be fair. In other news: the Turkish definition of genius is mostly being the son in law of Erdogan [1]) I believe this agreement is part of the restructuring after that cluster... Note that the agreement is both about production and buying. [2] "Finland has required extensive domestic participation, with industrial cooperation valued at a minimum of 30 percent of the contract price of procuring 64 F-35A fighters. Under the agreement, Finnish firms will produce the F-35’s forward fuselage structures, including components intended for export aircraft. The agreement also includes ..." As to how the EU is involved: https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-defence-industry/european-defence-fund-edf-official-webpage-european-commission_en https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-defence-indus... (ie. that's where you go to ask for loans to start a factory for making F35 components, they have a page listing the deals ... somewhere). Note that this is one of the EU institutions that isn't in the budget (well, the loans aren't). They're not spending tax money to make those loans, they're printing money to make those loans. So the Finnish government is making this deal, including details on export (and this is obviously weapons exports). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sel%C3%A7uk_Bayraktar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sel%C3%A7uk_Bayraktar [2] https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/finland-leading-manufacturer-F35 https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/finland-leading-ma...

dinfinity 9d ago
How is it an example of European governments preventing American weapons from being sold? Are you saying the Finns unilaterally decided that Turkey can't have F-35s, even if the USA wants to sell F-35s to them?
- spwa4 9d ago
  You misunderstand. Everything is prevented by law, with the purpose to make any change in production involve negotiations with the government, who then negotiates weapons/jobs/local production/... Without those negotiations, and the resulting exceptions to the law nothing can be sold, even dual use items are restricted. And, of course, the other side of that coin: weapons export regulation is Europe is not something that is meant to actually prevent weapons export. Rather it is used like a company policy: it makes sure everyone regularly has to give the government something they want. Which is, to put it mildly, not how politicians present those laws.
  - dinfinity 9d ago
    No, you misunderstand. You keep talking about things irrelevant to the key point. Look at the political pressure the USA puts on ASML in the Netherlands to prevent them from selling certain products to China because those machines contain some American parts. The question is explicitly when the reverse has happened, not some general info about European weapon exports or legislation.