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I don't know where you get "really difficult" and "fighting against macOS" from. You only have to hit the disclosure arrow next to "Where" in the save dialog on

by re 12d ago

I don't know where you get "really difficult" and "fighting against macOS" from. You only have to hit the disclosure arrow next to "Where" in the save dialog one time and it remembers it and shows it by default from then on. (Okay, maybe it's once per app? I don't remember for sure, but I can't remember the last time the save panel didn't show me the folder browser by default.)

gkoberger 12d ago
If you read the article, it talks from the perspective of "I help lots of friends and family with IT stuff". For most users, they wouldn't know how to get to the larger menu or that Cmd+Shft+G lets them type in a path.
- pwinnski 7d ago
  That's progressive disclosure, and it's usually considered to be a good thing for usability. Let's be clear: if you save something in macOS, by default you get: 1. a text field with something like "Untitled" already selected, but not the extension, so if you just start typing, the extension isn't replaced. 2. a text field for tags to make organization easier 3. a Where drop-down with recent locations, favorites, drives, etc. 4. a button with an arrow pointing down next to the "where" list. 5. depending on the app, probably a format drop-down. Friends and family who depend on "you're good with computers, right?" people like us, they get overwhelmed by too many choices. Here, macOS gives them five, only five, and the complaint is that most people ignore four of them! Give them the larger menu by default, and it's more options to ignore. If someone is saving every single file to their Desktop (/me shudders), then they are ignoring every bit of even a small, simple UI, so giving them a more complicated UI accomplishes nothing good. I said they're ignoring four of the five UI elements, but now I wonder how many of the files on the desktop are named "Untitled (38).pdf" or whatever. They could be ignoring all five!
- deleted 12d ago
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ShinyLeftPad 12d ago
It's once forever, not once per app.

by re 12d ago

gkoberger 12d ago

If you read the article, it talks from the perspective of "I help lots of friends and family with IT stuff". For most users, they wouldn't know how to get to the larger menu or that Cmd+Shft+G lets them type in a path.

pwinnski 7d ago
That's progressive disclosure, and it's usually considered to be a good thing for usability. Let's be clear: if you save something in macOS, by default you get: 1. a text field with something like "Untitled" already selected, but not the extension, so if you just start typing, the extension isn't replaced. 2. a text field for tags to make organization easier 3. a Where drop-down with recent locations, favorites, drives, etc. 4. a button with an arrow pointing down next to the "where" list. 5. depending on the app, probably a format drop-down. Friends and family who depend on "you're good with computers, right?" people like us, they get overwhelmed by too many choices. Here, macOS gives them five, only five, and the complaint is that most people ignore four of them! Give them the larger menu by default, and it's more options to ignore. If someone is saving every single file to their Desktop (/me shudders), then they are ignoring every bit of even a small, simple UI, so giving them a more complicated UI accomplishes nothing good. I said they're ignoring four of the five UI elements, but now I wonder how many of the files on the desktop are named "Untitled (38).pdf" or whatever. They could be ignoring all five!
deleted 12d ago
[deleted]

ShinyLeftPad 12d ago

It's once forever, not once per app.