7 ms·

I’d be really interested to see all European countries & Canada dump their US bonds en mass if trump does anything untoward in Greenland, Canada or elsewhere.

noduerme 12d ago
As an American trying to retain my sanity in this country, I have to tell myself that such things are just trollish nonsense from the ultimate reality television troll. It is comforting to me that 50% of what he says is bluster and the other 50% is pure fabrication. I think we have developed some resistance to it where, like, a few years ago we would say "OH MY GOD! HE CAN'T POSSIBLY BE THREATENING CANADA!" and now we're just like, "there goes crazy old man again, don't worry, he just shit his pants on the golf course". Not saying it's right or sound that he's the elected leader of the country or that our politics is so warped... I mean, I blame it on being on the losing end of the most rigorously fought information war in history. But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. FWIW, the American people can't even support a war against the Islamic Republic of Iran, which has been blowing up our soldiers for decades. Hard to imagine they'd show much support for invading an ally.
- wanderingpixel 12d ago
  > But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. Sorry, but no. Even if there are no kinetic attacks towards allies right now, the "crazy old man" is causing real harm. Harm to global stability and the world order, economies, to businesses and individuals, to long term initiatives such as research and healthcare. But most importantly, real harm to the trust between ourselves. Western allies can no longer trust the USA, it is broken, we no longer have the same values. The first time in 2016 we forgave, everyone makes mistakes and Europe is certainly not free of them. But the American people chose to elect him twice with full knowledge, now everyone suffers. So the rest of the world forges its own path now. America's military, economic and cultural hegemony will decline. Not tomorrow, maybe not even quickly, but inevitably. Godspeed !
  - noduerme 12d ago
    Which is it... Godspeed the decline, or you hope it doesn't? I think it's a tragedy that America elected him twice, and it has already led to chaos among our allies and irreparable harm to the postwar order in which America was the seat of empire after Britain. I think that [the populist brain virus which took hold of America, in 2016 and particularly after covid] was done intentionally by Russia and China who are enemies of America. Is the loss of that order what you are bemoaning? We are also a country that established itself from European colonies. Every time Argentina or Brazil or Chile or Venezuela or Colombia go through spasms of communist or fascist takeover, Europe takes that as an unsurprising fact, and the bankers keep doing business with them. There is something much more frightening about America reaching some polar political extreme, and it's not simply nuclear weapons (because several very extreme dictatorships have those). What is scary about it is the same thing that's scary about the AfD in Germany... the idea that we are losing the generational knowledge we built to safeguard some of the world against savagery. In order to believe this, you must also believe that Germany and the US are not already, inherently savage and that some of the order brought by NATO and the postwar order has been a good thing, even up to and including the Cold War. Then, we can define what is worth saving about America and why it matters.
    - Terr_ 12d ago
      > What is scary about it is the same thing that's scary about the AfD in Germany... Without downplaying or excusing the US' problems, I hope everyone in other countries thinking "that can't happen here" realize that's what most Americans thought just a decade ago too. Turn that disgust with the disease into preventative treatment.
      - noduerme 12d ago
        Frankly, the government that America has right now is nowhere near as extreme as AfD. I wouldn't be surprised or sorry if the next President of the US sanctioned goods out of Saxony. But we have both types of populism here. Both of them incredibly stupid. Our true war is against the foreign social/mainstream media saturation which is pushing our population away from reading and away from analytical thought, manipulating them into the arms of either type of extremism, for the benefit of the autocracies who want to cause us to fight amongst ourselves. Trump is just one manifestation of that. "It can't happen here" relates to a particular sort of fascist or authoritarian takeover of society, and I still think it can't in America. Trump's approval rating is under 35%. I live in Oregon, the most progressive state in the country, and spent 2 hours on the phone today buying insurance from a guy in Georgia who got excited talking about what guns I owned (and what he owned). I think the idea of a hard takeover in America by the far right is ...bullshit. And I even wrote a novel about it happening 20 years ago. But the rest of the world can't keep going through the vicissitudes of America's increasing whiplash at being manipulated and dumbed down this way. What has to change is something in the American mind before it allows its empire to collapse.
- noir_lord 12d ago
  Except that “crazy old man” (I’d have gone with corrupt criminal malignant narcissist to be honest) isn’t just shouting at pigeons in the park he already screwed up the world economy by starting a war he can’t figure out how to exit and dozens of other things. When the pigeon shouter threatens to annex Canada/Greenland you can shrug it off, when the leader of the largest economy and military says it, you can’t. Words matter. I’m British, We are often regarded as one of the US’s closest allies, I’m fucking furious with Trump and the people who support him, I’ve been boycotting everything US made that I can and I essentially see the current US as a globally destabilising force. Are there decent Americans appalled by what they’ve become, sure, doesn’t make a difference to the outcome though. Trump isn’t the main problem, he’s a symptom of the disease that is the main problem, the US elected him twice, that rot goes to the core.
- johanvts 12d ago
  I bought that initially, but Trump is causing real harm. The abandonment of WHO and USAid programs, stepping out of the paris accords etc. etc. But the real issue is that he has been elected twice, it is not some one-off freak accident, a lot of americans just care more about transphobia or pizzagate than climate change or geopolitics and thats why its now clear to the rest of the world that we can’t trust the US any more.
- stackghost 12d ago
  >But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. Wow you guys really don't get it, do you? It's not nonsense to us.
- kergonath 12d ago
  > But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. Tell that to Iran. Or Canada. Nobody in Europe is certain that he won’t do anything stupid in Greenland, either. We’re already in a trade war (mostly one-sided but still).
- 2000UltraDeluxe 12d ago
  > But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. We're at the point where the two countries, with most wars between them in history, stood side by side, ready to defend Greenland against a U.S. invasion. The monkey has a hand grenade. You lot gave it to him. Twice. You might find that it's a bit late for "relax, he's only kidding".
- pvaldes 11d ago
  > the American people can't even support a war against Iran The American people can't even support a war against their own government. A government that they ruminate, "may be" or "may not be" a team of Russia/Israel assets with the goal to grab every dollar and to turn USA into a dystopia. At this moment nobody can even assure with full certainty that there is not a bomb buried yet somewhere in the WH.

noduerme 12d ago

As an American trying to retain my sanity in this country, I have to tell myself that such things are just trollish nonsense from the ultimate reality television troll. It is comforting to me that 50% of what he says is bluster and the other 50% is pure fabrication. I think we have developed some resistance to it where, like, a few years ago we would say "OH MY GOD! HE CAN'T POSSIBLY BE THREATENING CANADA!" and now we're just like, "there goes crazy old man again, don't worry, he just shit his pants on the golf course". Not saying it's right or sound that he's the elected leader of the country or that our politics is so warped... I mean, I blame it on being on the losing end of the most rigorously fought information war in history. But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. FWIW, the American people can't even support a war against the Islamic Republic of Iran, which has been blowing up our soldiers for decades. Hard to imagine they'd show much support for invading an ally.

wanderingpixel 12d ago
> But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. Sorry, but no. Even if there are no kinetic attacks towards allies right now, the "crazy old man" is causing real harm. Harm to global stability and the world order, economies, to businesses and individuals, to long term initiatives such as research and healthcare. But most importantly, real harm to the trust between ourselves. Western allies can no longer trust the USA, it is broken, we no longer have the same values. The first time in 2016 we forgave, everyone makes mistakes and Europe is certainly not free of them. But the American people chose to elect him twice with full knowledge, now everyone suffers. So the rest of the world forges its own path now. America's military, economic and cultural hegemony will decline. Not tomorrow, maybe not even quickly, but inevitably. Godspeed !
- noduerme 12d ago
  Which is it... Godspeed the decline, or you hope it doesn't? I think it's a tragedy that America elected him twice, and it has already led to chaos among our allies and irreparable harm to the postwar order in which America was the seat of empire after Britain. I think that [the populist brain virus which took hold of America, in 2016 and particularly after covid] was done intentionally by Russia and China who are enemies of America. Is the loss of that order what you are bemoaning? We are also a country that established itself from European colonies. Every time Argentina or Brazil or Chile or Venezuela or Colombia go through spasms of communist or fascist takeover, Europe takes that as an unsurprising fact, and the bankers keep doing business with them. There is something much more frightening about America reaching some polar political extreme, and it's not simply nuclear weapons (because several very extreme dictatorships have those). What is scary about it is the same thing that's scary about the AfD in Germany... the idea that we are losing the generational knowledge we built to safeguard some of the world against savagery. In order to believe this, you must also believe that Germany and the US are not already, inherently savage and that some of the order brought by NATO and the postwar order has been a good thing, even up to and including the Cold War. Then, we can define what is worth saving about America and why it matters.
  - Terr_ 12d ago
    > What is scary about it is the same thing that's scary about the AfD in Germany... Without downplaying or excusing the US' problems, I hope everyone in other countries thinking "that can't happen here" realize that's what most Americans thought just a decade ago too. Turn that disgust with the disease into preventative treatment.
    - noduerme 12d ago
      Frankly, the government that America has right now is nowhere near as extreme as AfD. I wouldn't be surprised or sorry if the next President of the US sanctioned goods out of Saxony. But we have both types of populism here. Both of them incredibly stupid. Our true war is against the foreign social/mainstream media saturation which is pushing our population away from reading and away from analytical thought, manipulating them into the arms of either type of extremism, for the benefit of the autocracies who want to cause us to fight amongst ourselves. Trump is just one manifestation of that. "It can't happen here" relates to a particular sort of fascist or authoritarian takeover of society, and I still think it can't in America. Trump's approval rating is under 35%. I live in Oregon, the most progressive state in the country, and spent 2 hours on the phone today buying insurance from a guy in Georgia who got excited talking about what guns I owned (and what he owned). I think the idea of a hard takeover in America by the far right is ...bullshit. And I even wrote a novel about it happening 20 years ago. But the rest of the world can't keep going through the vicissitudes of America's increasing whiplash at being manipulated and dumbed down this way. What has to change is something in the American mind before it allows its empire to collapse.
noir_lord 12d ago
Except that “crazy old man” (I’d have gone with corrupt criminal malignant narcissist to be honest) isn’t just shouting at pigeons in the park he already screwed up the world economy by starting a war he can’t figure out how to exit and dozens of other things. When the pigeon shouter threatens to annex Canada/Greenland you can shrug it off, when the leader of the largest economy and military says it, you can’t. Words matter. I’m British, We are often regarded as one of the US’s closest allies, I’m fucking furious with Trump and the people who support him, I’ve been boycotting everything US made that I can and I essentially see the current US as a globally destabilising force. Are there decent Americans appalled by what they’ve become, sure, doesn’t make a difference to the outcome though. Trump isn’t the main problem, he’s a symptom of the disease that is the main problem, the US elected him twice, that rot goes to the core.
johanvts 12d ago
I bought that initially, but Trump is causing real harm. The abandonment of WHO and USAid programs, stepping out of the paris accords etc. etc. But the real issue is that he has been elected twice, it is not some one-off freak accident, a lot of americans just care more about transphobia or pizzagate than climate change or geopolitics and thats why its now clear to the rest of the world that we can’t trust the US any more.
stackghost 12d ago
>But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. Wow you guys really don't get it, do you? It's not nonsense to us.
kergonath 12d ago
> But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. Tell that to Iran. Or Canada. Nobody in Europe is certain that he won’t do anything stupid in Greenland, either. We’re already in a trade war (mostly one-sided but still).
2000UltraDeluxe 12d ago
> But I believe you can relax, because this is all nonsense. We're at the point where the two countries, with most wars between them in history, stood side by side, ready to defend Greenland against a U.S. invasion. The monkey has a hand grenade. You lot gave it to him. Twice. You might find that it's a bit late for "relax, he's only kidding".
pvaldes 11d ago
> the American people can't even support a war against Iran The American people can't even support a war against their own government. A government that they ruminate, "may be" or "may not be" a team of Russia/Israel assets with the goal to grab every dollar and to turn USA into a dystopia. At this moment nobody can even assure with full certainty that there is not a bomb buried yet somewhere in the WH.