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1 - How are people torrenting and not using a VPN? 2 - How are judges still allowing this business model of sharing files then trying to shake down people that

1 - How are people torrenting and not using a VPN? 2 - How are judges still allowing this business model of sharing files then trying to shake down people that download them?

kodoman 13d ago
yeah everyone knows the losses they argue for are bullshit, I really think people should see how many times lawyers and other legal professionals give each other jobs by creating a world in which they are more and more needed. Of course legal professionals are always needed but so much of what is done today is just a kind of rent seeking.
- sanex 13d ago
  Company I work for got sued because someone filled out a form to get contacted, got a phone call as is expected after filling out said form, then sued because they're on the do not call list. Why did you fill out the form then?
RealityVoid 13d ago
In countries with lax enforcement VPN use is not really needed.
- tonyedgecombe 13d ago
  In the UK you get a stern letter from your ISP and that's it.
ranger_danger 13d ago
How do you know the IP in question was not the final hop of someone's VPN connection?
- nostrademons 13d ago
  Are you confusing Tor with a VPN? With a VPN the IP is a commercial server run by the VPN provider, and there's usually just one hop (you run an encrypted connection between yourself and the VPN provider that all your traffic is routed over, then the VPN provider makes outgoing connections on your behalf). You're relying on the VPN provider's promise to not log customer connections, but if they are honest, all connections seem like they're coming from the VPN provider and aren't traceable beyond that. With Tor, you connect to a random Tor node (which may be another residential computer), which connects to a node in the middle, which connects to an exit node, which forwards your requests on to their final destination. All connections look like they come from the exit node, which might be someone's residential IP.
  - ranger_danger 12d ago
    > Are you confusing Tor with a VPN? No > With a VPN the IP is a commercial server run by the VPN provider That is not a requirement... anyone can run VPN server software on a computer they control, whether it's on a personal/residential connection or a VPS/VM you rent, or something else. Many privacy-conscious people do this regularly whether or not a commercial VPN provider is involved.
- harshreality 13d ago
  Sure, that's plausible... a facebook exec so dumb that they're using their personal ISP connection to run a VPN for others, and even dumber that they don't notice or don't care about a massive amount of torrent traffic through that VPN. It's not really a VPN for piracy purposes unless it's a commercial, no-log VPN. Since when a VPN is used to move the point at which traffic enters the internet, the owner of the VPN exit will be held to account. They can try to claim they were running a "private" VPN and gave random people (from reddit and discord) internet access through it. They can try to claim they don't keep logs. Meanwhile, for a facebook VP with suspected activity tied to facebook corporate, the rightsholder will subpoena every digital device in the person's home, depose all their family and close friends, subpoena their facebook email...
  - ranger_danger 12d ago
    Reminds me of https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wirel...
KaiserPro 13d ago
> not using a VPN because in some cases VPNs tie to you neatly to an action better than just home internet. With a VPN, you have much less deniability, because its tied to a device often with a username and password.
- throw03172019 13d ago
  What’s the argument if it’s on your Home internet?
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 13d ago
    When I use the VPN, I am connecting to an endpoint that 40 other people are also connected to. Did I download that file, or did one of the other 39 download it? Even the VPN provider can't tell... they keep no logs. I wouldn't want to use the VPN to phone in some bomb threat, that wouldn't even hide me 5 minutes from the feebs, but it's like an impenetrable shield for copyright troll lawyers. Smooth sailing for the last 13 or 14 years, for $3/month. I'd be shocked if anyone in the United States is still downloading stuff without a VPN. There are entire countries that don't have to worry about it, but none in Europe or North America where that is the case.
    - deleted 12d ago
      [deleted]
    - Joel_Mckay 12d ago
      You do realize many VPN providers are run by intelligence contractors. =3
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 12d ago
        And? Are they going to commit treason and start snitching on me to Hollywood lawyers for shits and giggles? How would that play out do you think?
        12d ago

1 - How are people torrenting and not using a VPN? 2 - How are judges still allowing this business model of sharing files then trying to shake down people that download them?

kodoman 13d ago

yeah everyone knows the losses they argue for are bullshit, I really think people should see how many times lawyers and other legal professionals give each other jobs by creating a world in which they are more and more needed. Of course legal professionals are always needed but so much of what is done today is just a kind of rent seeking.

sanex 13d ago
Company I work for got sued because someone filled out a form to get contacted, got a phone call as is expected after filling out said form, then sued because they're on the do not call list. Why did you fill out the form then?

RealityVoid 13d ago

In countries with lax enforcement VPN use is not really needed.

tonyedgecombe 13d ago
In the UK you get a stern letter from your ISP and that's it.

ranger_danger 13d ago

How do you know the IP in question was not the final hop of someone's VPN connection?

nostrademons 13d ago
Are you confusing Tor with a VPN? With a VPN the IP is a commercial server run by the VPN provider, and there's usually just one hop (you run an encrypted connection between yourself and the VPN provider that all your traffic is routed over, then the VPN provider makes outgoing connections on your behalf). You're relying on the VPN provider's promise to not log customer connections, but if they are honest, all connections seem like they're coming from the VPN provider and aren't traceable beyond that. With Tor, you connect to a random Tor node (which may be another residential computer), which connects to a node in the middle, which connects to an exit node, which forwards your requests on to their final destination. All connections look like they come from the exit node, which might be someone's residential IP.
- ranger_danger 12d ago
  > Are you confusing Tor with a VPN? No > With a VPN the IP is a commercial server run by the VPN provider That is not a requirement... anyone can run VPN server software on a computer they control, whether it's on a personal/residential connection or a VPS/VM you rent, or something else. Many privacy-conscious people do this regularly whether or not a commercial VPN provider is involved.
harshreality 13d ago
Sure, that's plausible... a facebook exec so dumb that they're using their personal ISP connection to run a VPN for others, and even dumber that they don't notice or don't care about a massive amount of torrent traffic through that VPN. It's not really a VPN for piracy purposes unless it's a commercial, no-log VPN. Since when a VPN is used to move the point at which traffic enters the internet, the owner of the VPN exit will be held to account. They can try to claim they were running a "private" VPN and gave random people (from reddit and discord) internet access through it. They can try to claim they don't keep logs. Meanwhile, for a facebook VP with suspected activity tied to facebook corporate, the rightsholder will subpoena every digital device in the person's home, depose all their family and close friends, subpoena their facebook email...
- ranger_danger 12d ago
  Reminds me of https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wireles.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wirel...

KaiserPro 13d ago

> not using a VPN because in some cases VPNs tie to you neatly to an action better than just home internet. With a VPN, you have much less deniability, because its tied to a device often with a username and password.

throw03172019 13d ago
What’s the argument if it’s on your Home internet?
- NoMoreNicksLeft 13d ago
  When I use the VPN, I am connecting to an endpoint that 40 other people are also connected to. Did I download that file, or did one of the other 39 download it? Even the VPN provider can't tell... they keep no logs. I wouldn't want to use the VPN to phone in some bomb threat, that wouldn't even hide me 5 minutes from the feebs, but it's like an impenetrable shield for copyright troll lawyers. Smooth sailing for the last 13 or 14 years, for $3/month. I'd be shocked if anyone in the United States is still downloading stuff without a VPN. There are entire countries that don't have to worry about it, but none in Europe or North America where that is the case.
  - deleted 12d ago
    [deleted]
  - Joel_Mckay 12d ago
    You do realize many VPN providers are run by intelligence contractors. =3
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 12d ago
      And? Are they going to commit treason and start snitching on me to Hollywood lawyers for shits and giggles? How would that play out do you think?
      - 12d ago