7 ms·

It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.

AndrewDucker 12d ago
People do not believe big companies when they say "I'll deal with the externalities a little later."
triceratops 12d ago
So then does the data center compensate local residents for their higher power bills today? Until the new capacity comes online? > Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront. No it's like demanding your new neighbors aren't forced to lend you money for your purchase - which is entirely reasonable. If you need money, get it from the bank. The top-level comment explains it already: "When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution."
no-name-here 12d ago
It typically takes 11-12 years for a nuclear plant to get built including planning and construction [1]. Is the idea that we'd build the data centers now, and finish the nuclear plants to power them 11-12 years from now? https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nuclear-plant-construction-and-start-up-project-Source-IAEA_fig5_304660691 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nu...
- leonidasrup 12d ago
  For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years. https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-turbine/ https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-t...
  - triceratops 12d ago
    > For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. That's still better than 11-12 years. How long does a solar farm take? If residents' opposition is rooted in higher power prices, data centers could just pay extra instead until the new capacity comes online. Seems like a cheap way to pay off opposition. > An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years. Given this article is about Pennsylvania, it'll probably take millions of years.
    - leonidasrup 12d ago
      > How long does a solar farm take? 24–48 months, but for a data center that has to run 24/7 you need to also build a gas power plant. https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-development-stages https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-devel... https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-centers-us-now-leads-world-new-gas-power-development https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-ce...
      - triceratops 12d ago
        Or use batteries. Also residential and industrial use will be lower at night. So the existing grid supply may also be enough.
        leonidasrup 12d ago
        In many places the contraty is true, peak electricity prices are after sunset, during night.
        triceratops 12d ago
        > peak electricity prices are after sunset The famous evening duck curve, when people go home and cook and turn on heating/cooling appliances. California is able to flatten that out with batteries alone. https://eticaag.com/battery-storage-and-the-duck-curve-march-29-event/ https://eticaag.com/battery-storage-and-the-duck-curve-march... > during night When everyone's asleep? Serious doubt, please show your sources.
lenkite 10d ago
> It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront. Have data center companies mortgaged their property to the public and paying interest on "power loans" monthly ? Please correct me if I am ignorant.

AndrewDucker 12d ago

People do not believe big companies when they say "I'll deal with the externalities a little later."

triceratops 12d ago

So then does the data center compensate local residents for their higher power bills today? Until the new capacity comes online? > Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront. No it's like demanding your new neighbors aren't forced to lend you money for your purchase - which is entirely reasonable. If you need money, get it from the bank. The top-level comment explains it already: "When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution."

no-name-here 12d ago

It typically takes 11-12 years for a nuclear plant to get built including planning and construction [1]. Is the idea that we'd build the data centers now, and finish the nuclear plants to power them 11-12 years from now? https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nuclear-plant-construction-and-start-up-project-Source-IAEA_fig5_304660691 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nu...

leonidasrup 12d ago
For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years. https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-turbine/ https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-t...
- triceratops 12d ago
  > For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. That's still better than 11-12 years. How long does a solar farm take? If residents' opposition is rooted in higher power prices, data centers could just pay extra instead until the new capacity comes online. Seems like a cheap way to pay off opposition. > An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years. Given this article is about Pennsylvania, it'll probably take millions of years.
  - leonidasrup 12d ago
    > How long does a solar farm take? 24–48 months, but for a data center that has to run 24/7 you need to also build a gas power plant. https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-development-stages https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-devel... https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-centers-us-now-leads-world-new-gas-power-development https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-ce...
    - triceratops 12d ago
      Or use batteries. Also residential and industrial use will be lower at night. So the existing grid supply may also be enough.
      - leonidasrup 12d ago
        In many places the contraty is true, peak electricity prices are after sunset, during night.
        triceratops 12d ago
        > peak electricity prices are after sunset The famous evening duck curve, when people go home and cook and turn on heating/cooling appliances. California is able to flatten that out with batteries alone. https://eticaag.com/battery-storage-and-the-duck-curve-march-29-event/ https://eticaag.com/battery-storage-and-the-duck-curve-march... > during night When everyone's asleep? Serious doubt, please show your sources.

lenkite 10d ago

> It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront. Have data center companies mortgaged their property to the public and paying interest on "power loans" monthly ? Please correct me if I am ignorant.