7 ms·

That includes nuclear power, correct?

by nxm 14d ago

triceratops 14d ago
Can they build it safely as fast as the data center it's meant to power? Full steam ahead then.
- postalrat 14d ago
  It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.
  - AndrewDucker 14d ago
    People do not believe big companies when they say "I'll deal with the externalities a little later."
  - triceratops 14d ago
    So then does the data center compensate local residents for their higher power bills today? Until the new capacity comes online? > Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront. No it's like demanding your new neighbors aren't forced to lend you money for your purchase - which is entirely reasonable. If you need money, get it from the bank. The top-level comment explains it already: "When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution."
  - no-name-here 14d ago
    It typically takes 11-12 years for a nuclear plant to get built including planning and construction [1]. Is the idea that we'd build the data centers now, and finish the nuclear plants to power them 11-12 years from now? https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nuclear-plant-construction-and-start-up-project-Source-IAEA_fig5_304660691 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nu...
    - leonidasrup 14d ago
      For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years. https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-turbine/ https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-t...
      - triceratops 14d ago
        > For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. That's still better than 11-12 years. How long does a solar farm take? If residents' opposition is rooted in higher power prices, data centers could just pay extra instead until the new capacity comes online. Seems like a cheap way to pay off opposition. > An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years. Given this article is about Pennsylvania, it'll probably take millions of years.
        leonidasrup 14d ago
        > How long does a solar farm take? 24–48 months, but for a data center that has to run 24/7 you need to also build a gas power plant. https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-development-stages https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-devel... https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-centers-us-now-leads-world-new-gas-power-development https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-ce...
        triceratops 14d ago
        Or use batteries. Also residential and industrial use will be lower at night. So the existing grid supply may also be enough.
        leonidasrup 14d ago
        In many places the contraty is true, peak electricity prices are after sunset, during night.
  - lenkite 12d ago
    > It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront. Have data center companies mortgaged their property to the public and paying interest on "power loans" monthly ? Please correct me if I am ignorant.
- leonidasrup 14d ago
  Some older nuclear power plants are been commissioned back into production: Three Mile Island "2027 – Nuclear Regulatory Commission to decide whether to issue operating license to Constellation Energy, with the decision expected in May. If granted, Constellation expects to bring the reactor back online later in the year." https://www.witf.org/2026/07/28/three-mile-island-reactor-restart-progresses-through-environmental-review-public-comments/ https://www.witf.org/2026/07/28/three-mile-island-reactor-re... Michigan’s Palisades nuclear power plant https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/nuclear/americas-first-nuclear-plant-restart https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/nuclear/americas-first-... Duane Arnold Energy Center in Iowa https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nextera-energy-partners-with-google-restart-iowa-nuclear-plant-2025-10-27/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nextera-energy-partn... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Arnold_Energy_Center#Restart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Arnold_Energy_Center#Res...
  - triceratops 14d ago
    If electricity bills are steady or falling they should have no trouble convincing voters. Nothing to worry about.
- bluGill 14d ago
  You don't need to build them. You can just not retire, or unretire one. Though we really should get better at building nuclear power plants. I'm think more of small ones to power ships though, not land based ones. Ships are one of the few places where oil/coal are used that there are not realistic renewable alternatives.
mschuster91 14d ago
Nuclear power takes 10-20 years to build from scratch.
- leonidasrup 14d ago
  Median build time for 1 GW nuclear power plant in Japan was 1721 days (4.7 years), first concrete to grid connection. https://x.com/GrantChalmers/status/1422472474487263233 https://x.com/GrantChalmers/status/1422472474487263233
  - mschuster91 14d ago
    [dead]
  - no-name-here 14d ago
    1. The 2 reactors under construction [1 > CONSTRUCTION] are expected to take 20 years and >20 years respectively [2][3]. 2. Nuclear Safety Commission Chairman Haruki Madarame told a parliamentary inquiry that "Japan's atomic safety rules are inferior to global standards and left the country unprepared for the Fukushima nuclear disaster". There were flaws in, and lax enforcement of, the safety rules governing Japanese nuclear power companies. [4 (Bloomberg: "Nuclear Safety Chief Says Lax Rules Led to Fukushima Crisis")] 3. Additionally, your source is from more than 5 years ago; in those additional >5 years, neither of the 2 under-construction Japan plants (started in 2006 and 2010) have finished, and 1 is not expected until 2030 (I couldn't find an expected date for the other). 4. The phase you mentioned is a relatively small amount (~1/3) of a nuclear reactor's total startup timeline. [6] 5. Japan was the fastest country from your 2021 source (before taking into account that current JP builds are taking 20+ years). 6. The last Japan reactor to go online was in the 2000s [1 > OPERATION]. [1] https://cnpp.iaea.org/public/countries/JP/profile/preview https://cnpp.iaea.org/public/countries/JP/profile/preview [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cma_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cma_Nuclear_Power_Plant [3] https://pris-stats.iaea.org/reactor/862 https://pris-stats.iaea.org/reactor/862 [4] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-02-16/nuclear-safety-chief-says-lax-rules-led-to-fukushima-disaster https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-02-16/nuclear-s... [5] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nuclear-plant-construction-and-start-up-project-Source-IAEA_fig5_304660691 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nu...
no-name-here 14d ago
I'm fine with any power source, but all sources should include all lifetime externality costs (including for fossil/nuclear/renewable): * Externality costs for items like pollution * Any required insurance cost during their lifetime (not subsidized) * An up-front bond or similar to cover final decommissioning and any required long-term storage costs (again, for fossil/renewable/nuclear)
sidewndr46 14d ago
By the time nuclear power were to come online in the US, most of these datacenters would be idled and possibly even demolished.

That includes nuclear power, correct?

by nxm 14d ago

That includes nuclear power, correct?

triceratops 14d ago

Can they build it safely as fast as the data center it's meant to power? Full steam ahead then.

postalrat 14d ago
It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.
- AndrewDucker 14d ago
  People do not believe big companies when they say "I'll deal with the externalities a little later."
- triceratops 14d ago
  So then does the data center compensate local residents for their higher power bills today? Until the new capacity comes online? > Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront. No it's like demanding your new neighbors aren't forced to lend you money for your purchase - which is entirely reasonable. If you need money, get it from the bank. The top-level comment explains it already: "When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution."
- no-name-here 14d ago
  It typically takes 11-12 years for a nuclear plant to get built including planning and construction [1]. Is the idea that we'd build the data centers now, and finish the nuclear plants to power them 11-12 years from now? https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nuclear-plant-construction-and-start-up-project-Source-IAEA_fig5_304660691 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nu...
  - leonidasrup 14d ago
    For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years. https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-turbine/ https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-t...
    - triceratops 14d ago
      > For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. That's still better than 11-12 years. How long does a solar farm take? If residents' opposition is rooted in higher power prices, data centers could just pay extra instead until the new capacity comes online. Seems like a cheap way to pay off opposition. > An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years. Given this article is about Pennsylvania, it'll probably take millions of years.
      - leonidasrup 14d ago
        > How long does a solar farm take? 24–48 months, but for a data center that has to run 24/7 you need to also build a gas power plant. https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-development-stages https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-devel... https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-centers-us-now-leads-world-new-gas-power-development https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-ce...
        triceratops 14d ago
        Or use batteries. Also residential and industrial use will be lower at night. So the existing grid supply may also be enough.
        leonidasrup 14d ago
        In many places the contraty is true, peak electricity prices are after sunset, during night.
- lenkite 12d ago
  > It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront. Have data center companies mortgaged their property to the public and paying interest on "power loans" monthly ? Please correct me if I am ignorant.
leonidasrup 14d ago
Some older nuclear power plants are been commissioned back into production: Three Mile Island "2027 – Nuclear Regulatory Commission to decide whether to issue operating license to Constellation Energy, with the decision expected in May. If granted, Constellation expects to bring the reactor back online later in the year." https://www.witf.org/2026/07/28/three-mile-island-reactor-restart-progresses-through-environmental-review-public-comments/ https://www.witf.org/2026/07/28/three-mile-island-reactor-re... Michigan’s Palisades nuclear power plant https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/nuclear/americas-first-nuclear-plant-restart https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/nuclear/americas-first-... Duane Arnold Energy Center in Iowa https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nextera-energy-partners-with-google-restart-iowa-nuclear-plant-2025-10-27/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nextera-energy-partn... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Arnold_Energy_Center#Restart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Arnold_Energy_Center#Res...
- triceratops 14d ago
  If electricity bills are steady or falling they should have no trouble convincing voters. Nothing to worry about.
bluGill 14d ago
You don't need to build them. You can just not retire, or unretire one. Though we really should get better at building nuclear power plants. I'm think more of small ones to power ships though, not land based ones. Ships are one of the few places where oil/coal are used that there are not realistic renewable alternatives.

mschuster91 14d ago

Nuclear power takes 10-20 years to build from scratch.

leonidasrup 14d ago
Median build time for 1 GW nuclear power plant in Japan was 1721 days (4.7 years), first concrete to grid connection. https://x.com/GrantChalmers/status/1422472474487263233 https://x.com/GrantChalmers/status/1422472474487263233
- mschuster91 14d ago
  [dead]
- no-name-here 14d ago
  1. The 2 reactors under construction [1 > CONSTRUCTION] are expected to take 20 years and >20 years respectively [2][3]. 2. Nuclear Safety Commission Chairman Haruki Madarame told a parliamentary inquiry that "Japan's atomic safety rules are inferior to global standards and left the country unprepared for the Fukushima nuclear disaster". There were flaws in, and lax enforcement of, the safety rules governing Japanese nuclear power companies. [4 (Bloomberg: "Nuclear Safety Chief Says Lax Rules Led to Fukushima Crisis")] 3. Additionally, your source is from more than 5 years ago; in those additional >5 years, neither of the 2 under-construction Japan plants (started in 2006 and 2010) have finished, and 1 is not expected until 2030 (I couldn't find an expected date for the other). 4. The phase you mentioned is a relatively small amount (~1/3) of a nuclear reactor's total startup timeline. [6] 5. Japan was the fastest country from your 2021 source (before taking into account that current JP builds are taking 20+ years). 6. The last Japan reactor to go online was in the 2000s [1 > OPERATION]. [1] https://cnpp.iaea.org/public/countries/JP/profile/preview https://cnpp.iaea.org/public/countries/JP/profile/preview [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cma_Nuclear_Power_Plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%8Cma_Nuclear_Power_Plant [3] https://pris-stats.iaea.org/reactor/862 https://pris-stats.iaea.org/reactor/862 [4] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-02-16/nuclear-safety-chief-says-lax-rules-led-to-fukushima-disaster https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-02-16/nuclear-s... [5] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nuclear-plant-construction-and-start-up-project-Source-IAEA_fig5_304660691 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nu...

no-name-here 14d ago

I'm fine with any power source, but all sources should include all lifetime externality costs (including for fossil/nuclear/renewable): * Externality costs for items like pollution * Any required insurance cost during their lifetime (not subsidized) * An up-front bond or similar to cover final decommissioning and any required long-term storage costs (again, for fossil/renewable/nuclear)

sidewndr46 14d ago

By the time nuclear power were to come online in the US, most of these datacenters would be idled and possibly even demolished.