7 ms·

You do realise that countries other than the USA exist, right? The UK has had various forms of sports gambling legal for nearly 100 years and society hasn't cru

by gadders 13d ago

You do realise that countries other than the USA exist, right? The UK has had various forms of sports gambling legal for nearly 100 years and society hasn't crumbled and neither did sport.

gdulli 13d ago
Imagine two siblings, one who can handle the freedom of choosing their own bedtime and one who cannot.
- gadders 13d ago
  I don't see any country limitation in the original comment.
  - gdulli 13d ago
    Likely an Amerocentric comment, yes, that assumes gambling can only be as destructive and predatory as it is in the US. I don't know anything about how it works in the UK but it's plausible to me that it's not as harmful a force there, as you say.
    - gadders 13d ago
      If it had never happened, maybe sport would be some platonic ideal but if you look at the premier league, it seems to function OK as a sports league comparable to the NFL, despite people loading up on accas for fun.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 13d ago
      gambling in the UK "as destructive and predatory as it is in the US" is not something that I have a measure for, and anyway it is the wrong measure. Even if that is true, UK gambling really is not a force for good, quite the opposite. And becoming worse as it moves from a betting shop on the high street into a betting app in a persons pocket.
Gattopardo 13d ago
America is not the UK and its citizens are not capable of regulating themselves in the face of this sort of exploitation.
- strictnein 13d ago
  > NHS gambling clinics have experienced a rise of 130% in referrals in a year, leading to a large increase in the number of support locations. Sounds like the enlightened citizens of the UK aren't either?
  - Gattopardo 13d ago
    Searched the quote and you neglected to elaborate on how small the number is: > Health service figures show that from April to September 2024, 1,914 people were treated at NHS gambling clinics. This compares to the previous financial year when a total of 1,389 patients were cared for. In 2022-23 this number was 1,013, and in 2020-21 it was 775 patients. I get that you're probably trying to make a point that it's bad for everyone in general, but the US is on a completely different level of societal corruption from all of this.
    - strictnein 12d ago
      So in ~4 years the number of people needing professional medical help to combat their gambling addiction has over doubled and that's not a sign that there's a growing issue? I guess I should just stick to really deep thoughts like "America is not the UK and its citizens are not capable of regulating themselves in the face of this sort of exploitation", with absolutely nothing other than vibes that it's true. Because of course Americans are dumb.
- consensus1 13d ago
  I think that's a hilarious statement given how they drink in the UK
strictnein 13d ago
You've been able to gamble on your mobile device for 100 years in the UK? Modern gambling isn't you talking to a bookie and putting down $100 on your favorite team. That should still be legal. Phone apps which learn your behavior, your favorite teams, the offers you are likely to accept, the time of day that you're most likely to make a bet, etc etc and use that to barrage you with notifications, "free" plays, high paying parlays with horrible odds, should not be. Society bears the downsides of gambling and gambling addiction, while the casinos gather all of the upside. Finally... https://www.thalamos.co.uk/resources/gambling-addiction-related-medical-support-demand-surge/ https://www.thalamos.co.uk/resources/gambling-addiction-rela... > NHS gambling clinics have experienced a rise of 130% in referrals in a year, leading to a large increase in the number of support locations. Seems like the UK is also experiencing a large increase in problems from modern gambling systems.
- gadders 13d ago
  "A more recent survey in 2022, conducted by the United Kingdom Gambling Commission found that 'headline problem gambling rate is statistically stable at 0.2%. The moderate risk and low risk rates are also statistically stable at 0.9% and 1.4% respectively.'[45]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gambling_in_the_United_Kingdom#Problem_gambling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gambling_in_the_Uni...
  - ninglor 13d ago
    The Thalamos link describes a trend from 2023 to 2024. This would not be reflected in a survey from 2022.
- biztos 13d ago
  Out of curiosity, why should sports betting via a bookie be legal in the US? Currently it is not.
  - strictnein 12d ago
    By "bookie" I was actually thinking of all the small sportsbooks I saw in the UK when I've visited in the past. Calling them a casino would have been wrong and I couldn't remember the term "sportsbook".
esalman 13d ago
Sports gambling is controlled by FTC in the US. Prediction markets like Kalshi and Polymarket found a loophole where they can run gambling operations under CFTC and and not be controlled by FTC. There needs to be some legislative actions from the Congress to close the loophole.
- stefs 13d ago
  > Congress to close the loophole But i think one of the prediction markets more important uses is to enable insider trading for the current administration.
  - bluecalm 13d ago
    It's a lazy argument imo. As corrupt as they might be there is way more money to make in the stock market or bond market if you have insider info. There is little reason for them to go after peanuts in the prediction markets.
    - FireBeyond 13d ago
      I don't entirely agree. There's an angle on the "if corrupt, who cares?" but the stock and bond market have orders of magnitude more oversight and (potential) consequences than the risks and consequences of insider trading on the prediction markets.
- dylan604 13d ago
  What are the odds on the prediction market that this will happen?
- freejazz 13d ago
  Nothing needs to be done, Kalshi has no loophole. The Ninth Circuit ruled on exactly this last week.
  - esalman 13d ago
    Incorrect. Ninth circuit ruled in favor of Nevada State, but earlier this year third circuit ruled in favor of Kalshi. So it's going to the Supreme Court. All of the above is completely independent from what Congress can or cannot do.

by gadders 13d ago

You do realise that countries other than the USA exist, right? The UK has had various forms of sports gambling legal for nearly 100 years and society hasn't crumbled and neither did sport.

gdulli 13d ago

Imagine two siblings, one who can handle the freedom of choosing their own bedtime and one who cannot.

gadders 13d ago
I don't see any country limitation in the original comment.
- gdulli 13d ago
  Likely an Amerocentric comment, yes, that assumes gambling can only be as destructive and predatory as it is in the US. I don't know anything about how it works in the UK but it's plausible to me that it's not as harmful a force there, as you say.
  - gadders 13d ago
    If it had never happened, maybe sport would be some platonic ideal but if you look at the premier league, it seems to function OK as a sports league comparable to the NFL, despite people loading up on accas for fun.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 13d ago
    gambling in the UK "as destructive and predatory as it is in the US" is not something that I have a measure for, and anyway it is the wrong measure. Even if that is true, UK gambling really is not a force for good, quite the opposite. And becoming worse as it moves from a betting shop on the high street into a betting app in a persons pocket.

Gattopardo 13d ago

America is not the UK and its citizens are not capable of regulating themselves in the face of this sort of exploitation.

strictnein 13d ago
> NHS gambling clinics have experienced a rise of 130% in referrals in a year, leading to a large increase in the number of support locations. Sounds like the enlightened citizens of the UK aren't either?
- Gattopardo 13d ago
  Searched the quote and you neglected to elaborate on how small the number is: > Health service figures show that from April to September 2024, 1,914 people were treated at NHS gambling clinics. This compares to the previous financial year when a total of 1,389 patients were cared for. In 2022-23 this number was 1,013, and in 2020-21 it was 775 patients. I get that you're probably trying to make a point that it's bad for everyone in general, but the US is on a completely different level of societal corruption from all of this.
  - strictnein 12d ago
    So in ~4 years the number of people needing professional medical help to combat their gambling addiction has over doubled and that's not a sign that there's a growing issue? I guess I should just stick to really deep thoughts like "America is not the UK and its citizens are not capable of regulating themselves in the face of this sort of exploitation", with absolutely nothing other than vibes that it's true. Because of course Americans are dumb.
consensus1 13d ago
I think that's a hilarious statement given how they drink in the UK

strictnein 13d ago

You've been able to gamble on your mobile device for 100 years in the UK? Modern gambling isn't you talking to a bookie and putting down $100 on your favorite team. That should still be legal. Phone apps which learn your behavior, your favorite teams, the offers you are likely to accept, the time of day that you're most likely to make a bet, etc etc and use that to barrage you with notifications, "free" plays, high paying parlays with horrible odds, should not be. Society bears the downsides of gambling and gambling addiction, while the casinos gather all of the upside. Finally... https://www.thalamos.co.uk/resources/gambling-addiction-related-medical-support-demand-surge/ https://www.thalamos.co.uk/resources/gambling-addiction-rela... > NHS gambling clinics have experienced a rise of 130% in referrals in a year, leading to a large increase in the number of support locations. Seems like the UK is also experiencing a large increase in problems from modern gambling systems.

gadders 13d ago
"A more recent survey in 2022, conducted by the United Kingdom Gambling Commission found that 'headline problem gambling rate is statistically stable at 0.2%. The moderate risk and low risk rates are also statistically stable at 0.9% and 1.4% respectively.'[45]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gambling_in_the_United_Kingdom#Problem_gambling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gambling_in_the_Uni...
- ninglor 13d ago
  The Thalamos link describes a trend from 2023 to 2024. This would not be reflected in a survey from 2022.
biztos 13d ago
Out of curiosity, why should sports betting via a bookie be legal in the US? Currently it is not.
- strictnein 12d ago
  By "bookie" I was actually thinking of all the small sportsbooks I saw in the UK when I've visited in the past. Calling them a casino would have been wrong and I couldn't remember the term "sportsbook".

esalman 13d ago

Sports gambling is controlled by FTC in the US. Prediction markets like Kalshi and Polymarket found a loophole where they can run gambling operations under CFTC and and not be controlled by FTC. There needs to be some legislative actions from the Congress to close the loophole.

stefs 13d ago
> Congress to close the loophole But i think one of the prediction markets more important uses is to enable insider trading for the current administration.
- bluecalm 13d ago
  It's a lazy argument imo. As corrupt as they might be there is way more money to make in the stock market or bond market if you have insider info. There is little reason for them to go after peanuts in the prediction markets.
  - FireBeyond 13d ago
    I don't entirely agree. There's an angle on the "if corrupt, who cares?" but the stock and bond market have orders of magnitude more oversight and (potential) consequences than the risks and consequences of insider trading on the prediction markets.
dylan604 13d ago
What are the odds on the prediction market that this will happen?
freejazz 13d ago
Nothing needs to be done, Kalshi has no loophole. The Ninth Circuit ruled on exactly this last week.
- esalman 13d ago
  Incorrect. Ninth circuit ruled in favor of Nevada State, but earlier this year third circuit ruled in favor of Kalshi. So it's going to the Supreme Court. All of the above is completely independent from what Congress can or cannot do.