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>No, they do not. Yes they do. >Getting an ID card in most places requires a fee, False, there are no fees for voter IDs. Please find a state where you belie

>No, they do not. Yes they do. >Getting an ID card in most places requires a fee, False, there are no fees for voter IDs. Please find a state where you believe this is true. >as well a trip to the DMV or equivalent Not always. >and providing documentation such as a birth certificate, which also requires a fee. False. Many (all?) states provide free birth certificates for voter IDs. >You take this process for granted I don't take this process for granted, it's the same process across the first world. >because you live a privileged life, but for many people, taking a day off work and paying $50 to get an ID is an insurmountable obstacle, Nice soft bigotry of low expectations. You're so privileged that you actually believe this objectively false propaganda. The fact that you've repeated it to multiple times to virtue signal which may dissuade people to vote is a luxury belief [0]. Who believes luxury beliefs? Privileged peopled. >If voter ID advocates feel so strongly about their position, they would support mandatory ID. They do. >The fact that they don't support mandatory ID False, they do support free IDs. >they don't care about securing elections, they care only about excluding the undesirable class from elections. Repeating propaganda doesn't make it true. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_belief https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_belief

hackyhacky 13d ago
> Yes they do. Okay, we're at that level of argument, I see. Well, you forgot to bring your evidence. A drivers license in New York costs between $64.25 and $107.5 >>as well a trip to the DMV or equivalent > Not always. Please explain how a an ID issued without an in-person visit is supposed to securely represent a person's citizenship status? That is the point, after all, right? > False. Many (all?) states provide free birth certificates for voter IDs. Absolutely not true. Even if it were true, it's still friction, which is ~10% of the American population lacks an ID that would be required to vote. If you're trying to convince me that getting an ID is free and easy, you'll need to explain first why everyone who needs such an ID doesn't already have one.[1] > I don't take this process for granted, it's the same process across the first world. European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not. > virtue signal Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice. To whom am I virtue signalling? My massive Instagram following (which I don't have)? Maybe you falsely accuse other people of chasing clout because the idea of pursuing justice for its own sake is completely foreign to your own morality. >>If voter ID advocates feel so strongly about their position, they would support mandatory ID. >They do. Please check your facts. Free, mandatory ID was offered as amendment by Democrats to the recent voter ID law and was voted down by Republicans. [2] >>The fact that they don't support mandatory ID >False, they do support free IDs. That's not what I said. In order for voter ID laws to be fair, IDs must be not only free, but mandatory for everyone and issued automatically. Republicans have consistently voted against such a law. >they don't care about securing elections, they care only about excluding the undesirable class from elections. Do you really disagree with that statement? Can you then explain why the GOP has systematically disenfranchised voters? Just a few recent examples: * Georgia improperly purged legitimate voters https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/19/georgia-gove https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/19/georgia-gove... * Tarrant County, Texas dramatically reduces polling sites in Democrat-leaning areas, despite population growth https://fortworthreport.org/2026/09/01/advocates-demand-incr https://fortworthreport.org/2026/09/01/advocates-demand-incr... * Tennessee (among other states) gerrymanders its districts to disenfranchise minority voters https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-memphis-voters-fee https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-memphis-voters-fee... > Repeating propaganda doesn't make it true. I absolutely agree with this statement. Somebody should tell Donald Trump (and his rabid followers), who despite your exhortation insists on lying about election fraud. [1] https://voteriders.org/article/who-doesnt-have-an-id-in-america-today/ https://voteriders.org/article/who-doesnt-have-an-id-in-amer... [2] https://apnews.com/article/save-act-senate-voting-bill-trump-voter-id-2d44f778d671ff4d8e2caec1a85bcb36 https://apnews.com/article/save-act-senate-voting-bill-trump...
- throwawaypath 13d ago
  >Okay, we're at that level of argument, I see. Well, you forgot to bring your evidence. So did you. >A drivers license in New York costs between $64.25 and $107.5 This is about voter IDs (which are free), not drivers licenses. Now you're moving goalposts. >Please explain how a an ID issued without an in-person visit is supposed to securely represent a person's citizenship status? That is the point, after all, right? Many states have mobile DMV offices that are stationed within walking distance during the year, special programs where DMV employees go to the homes of those in need to verify documentation, etc. >Absolutely not true. Even if it were true, it's still friction, which is ~10% of the American population lacks an ID that would be required to vote. It's absolutely true. Yes, if you lose documentation such as birth certificates, you may be required to acquire them. Same as any first world country. >European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not. The US has this via the states, not federally. >Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice. You're not supporting justice, you're regurgitating false propaganda. >To whom am I virtue signalling? My massive Instagram following (which I don't have)? Like Karens virtue signaling in the town square about being good Christians. >Maybe you falsely accuse other people of chasing clout because the idea of pursuing justice You're not "pursuing justice" you're regurgitating BlueSky brainrot to feel morally superior. >Please check your facts. Free, mandatory ID was offered as amendment by Democrats to the recent voter ID law and was voted down by Republicans. Free voter ID is provided by every Republican state. The link you posted literally states that Democrats blocked the bill LOL! >That's not what I said. In order for voter ID laws to be fair, IDs must be not only free, but mandatory for everyone and issued automatically. Republicans have consistently voted against such a law. That is exactly what every state has. Every Republican state has this. Find a state that does not have this. >Do you really disagree with that statement? Can you then explain why the GOP has systematically disenfranchised voters? Stop moving the goalposts. Your claims about voter ID are fake propaganda. Voter IDs are free in every state, you cannot deny this fact.
  - hackyhacky 13d ago
    > So did you. Did you not see the links to factual evidence that I included? > This is about voter IDs (which are free), not drivers licenses. Now you're moving goalposts. Most people get their in the form of a driver's license, not as a pure voter ID. If a tiny minority of people get the free option, then how is it relevant? > Many states have mobile DMV offices that are stationed within walking distance during the year, special programs where DMV employees go to the homes of those in need to verify documentation, etc. This makes no sense. "Walking distance" to what? I have never heard of or seen such a program. If they exist, they are not terribly effective, given that 10% of the population still lack a valid ID. > It's absolutely true. Yes, if you lose documentation such as birth certificates, you may be required to acquire them. Same as any first world country. That's not how it works in Europe (at least in Netherlands and Czech Republic, where I have experience). In that case, the government already has your birth cert, so they don't force you to acquire it and then give it back to a different part of the government. Only the US sets up these additional obstacles. Which, again, is why 10% of Americans don't have a valid ID, a fact that you refuse to address. >>European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not. > The US has this via the states, not federally. Can you please name a single US state that automatically issues ID to all voters? I can't. >>Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice. > You're not supporting justice, you're regurgitating false propaganda. What about "making sure that eligible voters and vote" is not about justice? > Like Karens virtue signaling in the town square about being good Christians. Not an answer to my question. > You're not "pursuing justice" you're regurgitating BlueSky brainrot to feel morally superior. You already said that, but you are just making baseless accusations. You don't know my mind. Let me ask you this: do you categorically refuse the possibility that anyone pursues justice for its own sake? Were MLK Jr, Ghandi, the Sufragettes, the abolitoinists all just "virtue signalling", or do you think that some people actually care about making the world a better place? It's really hard to take your argument seriously when doubt the good faith of arguments made with support facts that help people and support democracy. Clearly no one in the MAGA camp could be accused of "virtue signalling" because they have no virtues. On the contrary, MAGA members publicly signal their devotion to groupthink by willfully blocking out unpleasant facts and pledging fealty to a prodigious liar. > Free voter ID is provided by every Republican state. The link you posted literally states that Democrats blocked the bill LOL! You keep on ignoring important words in my comment. In this case, you specifically edited out "automatic" and "mandatory." The absence of those words is why Democrats blocked the bill. > That is exactly what every state has. Every Republican state has this. Find a state that does not have this. Literally no state has this. I live in a red state and I have to go in and request a voter ID, using appropriate evidence. They are not issued automatically. I challenge you to find any evidence supporting the idea that any state automatically issues ID. > Stop moving the goalposts. Your claims about voter ID are fake propaganda. Voter IDs are free in every state, you cannot deny this fact. Calling it propganda doesn't make it untrue. You have failed to address the many examples of disenfranchisement at the hands of the GOP. My conclusion, based on the evidence presented in this thread: Either you are a terrible debater who consistently disregards evidence and arguments presented by the opponent, or you are debating in bad faith and intentionally ignoring evidence that disagrees with your preconceived conclusion. Which is it?

hackyhacky 13d ago

> Yes they do. Okay, we're at that level of argument, I see. Well, you forgot to bring your evidence. A drivers license in New York costs between $64.25 and $107.5 >>as well a trip to the DMV or equivalent > Not always. Please explain how a an ID issued without an in-person visit is supposed to securely represent a person's citizenship status? That is the point, after all, right? > False. Many (all?) states provide free birth certificates for voter IDs. Absolutely not true. Even if it were true, it's still friction, which is ~10% of the American population lacks an ID that would be required to vote. If you're trying to convince me that getting an ID is free and easy, you'll need to explain first why everyone who needs such an ID doesn't already have one.[1] > I don't take this process for granted, it's the same process across the first world. European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not. > virtue signal Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice. To whom am I virtue signalling? My massive Instagram following (which I don't have)? Maybe you falsely accuse other people of chasing clout because the idea of pursuing justice for its own sake is completely foreign to your own morality. >>If voter ID advocates feel so strongly about their position, they would support mandatory ID. >They do. Please check your facts. Free, mandatory ID was offered as amendment by Democrats to the recent voter ID law and was voted down by Republicans. [2] >>The fact that they don't support mandatory ID >False, they do support free IDs. That's not what I said. In order for voter ID laws to be fair, IDs must be not only free, but mandatory for everyone and issued automatically. Republicans have consistently voted against such a law. >they don't care about securing elections, they care only about excluding the undesirable class from elections. Do you really disagree with that statement? Can you then explain why the GOP has systematically disenfranchised voters? Just a few recent examples: * Georgia improperly purged legitimate voters https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/19/georgia-gove https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/19/georgia-gove... * Tarrant County, Texas dramatically reduces polling sites in Democrat-leaning areas, despite population growth https://fortworthreport.org/2026/09/01/advocates-demand-incr https://fortworthreport.org/2026/09/01/advocates-demand-incr... * Tennessee (among other states) gerrymanders its districts to disenfranchise minority voters https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-memphis-voters-fee https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-memphis-voters-fee... > Repeating propaganda doesn't make it true. I absolutely agree with this statement. Somebody should tell Donald Trump (and his rabid followers), who despite your exhortation insists on lying about election fraud. [1] https://voteriders.org/article/who-doesnt-have-an-id-in-america-today/ https://voteriders.org/article/who-doesnt-have-an-id-in-amer... [2] https://apnews.com/article/save-act-senate-voting-bill-trump-voter-id-2d44f778d671ff4d8e2caec1a85bcb36 https://apnews.com/article/save-act-senate-voting-bill-trump...

throwawaypath 13d ago
>Okay, we're at that level of argument, I see. Well, you forgot to bring your evidence. So did you. >A drivers license in New York costs between $64.25 and $107.5 This is about voter IDs (which are free), not drivers licenses. Now you're moving goalposts. >Please explain how a an ID issued without an in-person visit is supposed to securely represent a person's citizenship status? That is the point, after all, right? Many states have mobile DMV offices that are stationed within walking distance during the year, special programs where DMV employees go to the homes of those in need to verify documentation, etc. >Absolutely not true. Even if it were true, it's still friction, which is ~10% of the American population lacks an ID that would be required to vote. It's absolutely true. Yes, if you lose documentation such as birth certificates, you may be required to acquire them. Same as any first world country. >European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not. The US has this via the states, not federally. >Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice. You're not supporting justice, you're regurgitating false propaganda. >To whom am I virtue signalling? My massive Instagram following (which I don't have)? Like Karens virtue signaling in the town square about being good Christians. >Maybe you falsely accuse other people of chasing clout because the idea of pursuing justice You're not "pursuing justice" you're regurgitating BlueSky brainrot to feel morally superior. >Please check your facts. Free, mandatory ID was offered as amendment by Democrats to the recent voter ID law and was voted down by Republicans. Free voter ID is provided by every Republican state. The link you posted literally states that Democrats blocked the bill LOL! >That's not what I said. In order for voter ID laws to be fair, IDs must be not only free, but mandatory for everyone and issued automatically. Republicans have consistently voted against such a law. That is exactly what every state has. Every Republican state has this. Find a state that does not have this. >Do you really disagree with that statement? Can you then explain why the GOP has systematically disenfranchised voters? Stop moving the goalposts. Your claims about voter ID are fake propaganda. Voter IDs are free in every state, you cannot deny this fact.
- hackyhacky 13d ago
  > So did you. Did you not see the links to factual evidence that I included? > This is about voter IDs (which are free), not drivers licenses. Now you're moving goalposts. Most people get their in the form of a driver's license, not as a pure voter ID. If a tiny minority of people get the free option, then how is it relevant? > Many states have mobile DMV offices that are stationed within walking distance during the year, special programs where DMV employees go to the homes of those in need to verify documentation, etc. This makes no sense. "Walking distance" to what? I have never heard of or seen such a program. If they exist, they are not terribly effective, given that 10% of the population still lack a valid ID. > It's absolutely true. Yes, if you lose documentation such as birth certificates, you may be required to acquire them. Same as any first world country. That's not how it works in Europe (at least in Netherlands and Czech Republic, where I have experience). In that case, the government already has your birth cert, so they don't force you to acquire it and then give it back to a different part of the government. Only the US sets up these additional obstacles. Which, again, is why 10% of Americans don't have a valid ID, a fact that you refuse to address. >>European countries in the "first world" have automatic, mandatory IDs, which the US does not. > The US has this via the states, not federally. Can you please name a single US state that automatically issues ID to all voters? I can't. >>Republicans always accuse liberals of "virtue signalling" when liberals try to do anything supporting justice. > You're not supporting justice, you're regurgitating false propaganda. What about "making sure that eligible voters and vote" is not about justice? > Like Karens virtue signaling in the town square about being good Christians. Not an answer to my question. > You're not "pursuing justice" you're regurgitating BlueSky brainrot to feel morally superior. You already said that, but you are just making baseless accusations. You don't know my mind. Let me ask you this: do you categorically refuse the possibility that anyone pursues justice for its own sake? Were MLK Jr, Ghandi, the Sufragettes, the abolitoinists all just "virtue signalling", or do you think that some people actually care about making the world a better place? It's really hard to take your argument seriously when doubt the good faith of arguments made with support facts that help people and support democracy. Clearly no one in the MAGA camp could be accused of "virtue signalling" because they have no virtues. On the contrary, MAGA members publicly signal their devotion to groupthink by willfully blocking out unpleasant facts and pledging fealty to a prodigious liar. > Free voter ID is provided by every Republican state. The link you posted literally states that Democrats blocked the bill LOL! You keep on ignoring important words in my comment. In this case, you specifically edited out "automatic" and "mandatory." The absence of those words is why Democrats blocked the bill. > That is exactly what every state has. Every Republican state has this. Find a state that does not have this. Literally no state has this. I live in a red state and I have to go in and request a voter ID, using appropriate evidence. They are not issued automatically. I challenge you to find any evidence supporting the idea that any state automatically issues ID. > Stop moving the goalposts. Your claims about voter ID are fake propaganda. Voter IDs are free in every state, you cannot deny this fact. Calling it propganda doesn't make it untrue. You have failed to address the many examples of disenfranchisement at the hands of the GOP. My conclusion, based on the evidence presented in this thread: Either you are a terrible debater who consistently disregards evidence and arguments presented by the opponent, or you are debating in bad faith and intentionally ignoring evidence that disagrees with your preconceived conclusion. Which is it?