6 ms·

> If you have a set of opinions and people who vehemently oppose them start pushing a bandwagon where they twist your words to make them sound more extreme and

by croon 13d ago

> If you have a set of opinions and people who vehemently oppose them start pushing a bandwagon where they twist your words to make them sound more extreme and typify them with the worst descriptors they can think of (nazi, antivaxer, etc) , spread all this around and then call for boycots of you and anyone that associates with you what would you call that? I can't argue on specifics because you only mention a "set of opinions", but have you entertained the idea that some opinions held by someone who doesn't necessarily identify as bigoted/hateful/illwilling can still be weaponized as such? How do you view the electorate of 1930s Germany? Personally I think very few of them were racists or fascists, but yet their votes were what led to "Nazi Germany". I believe you when you say you're unfairly labeled, and I also believe many more are. I however simultaneously believe that good people fall in with propaganda by piecemeal, that lead to much worse, and that "woke" people are rightfully upset by this.

modo_mario 13d ago
>I can't argue on specifics because you only mention a "set of opinions", I kept it broad since it applies broadly. Region specific separatism and struggles for self determination, migration, covid response, etc I have piles of experiences so think this discussion is better had with some wide framing which is hard to do candidly over text without writing a book (and putting out too much personal info for more eyes) but I'd love to hop on a call some time if you'd like. I find that it also makes people more receptive to eachothers points and ideas if they see/hear a living breathing human with often similar fundamentals. > but have you entertained the idea that some opinions held by someone who doesn't necessarily identify as bigoted/hateful/illwilling can still be weaponized as such? I agree but i don't consider this a onesided thing. In fact it becomes very evident when essentially the same positions are firmly branded left wing or right wing depending on the country and context. >Personally I think very few of them were racists or fascists, but yet their votes were what led to "Nazi Germany". I agree and not only were they as human as you and me and shaped and misled by their circumstances I think this kind of stuff applies much more broadly than this popular extreme pivotal point around which a lot of western viewpoints revolve. From a consequentialist perspective it's remarkably common to see people actively pushing towards outcomes they don't want or towards extremes they don't quite support trough nothing but innapropriate tying togheter of ideas or the power of words. > that "woke" people are rightfully upset by this. On some fronts they are. On others I've found that people weren't exactly pulled towards their respective (extreme) political bubble. They were shoved towards it by people who consider themselves very righteous and on occasion would "prefer a pagan to a heretic" or by reality not bending towards pure expectations and kneejerk reactions when faced with that.
- croon 12d ago
  Just wanted to say I appreciate your response being both nuanced, clear and with no attempts at misrepresenting any of my points. It's rarer than it should be.

by croon 13d ago

modo_mario 13d ago

>I can't argue on specifics because you only mention a "set of opinions", I kept it broad since it applies broadly. Region specific separatism and struggles for self determination, migration, covid response, etc I have piles of experiences so think this discussion is better had with some wide framing which is hard to do candidly over text without writing a book (and putting out too much personal info for more eyes) but I'd love to hop on a call some time if you'd like. I find that it also makes people more receptive to eachothers points and ideas if they see/hear a living breathing human with often similar fundamentals. > but have you entertained the idea that some opinions held by someone who doesn't necessarily identify as bigoted/hateful/illwilling can still be weaponized as such? I agree but i don't consider this a onesided thing. In fact it becomes very evident when essentially the same positions are firmly branded left wing or right wing depending on the country and context. >Personally I think very few of them were racists or fascists, but yet their votes were what led to "Nazi Germany". I agree and not only were they as human as you and me and shaped and misled by their circumstances I think this kind of stuff applies much more broadly than this popular extreme pivotal point around which a lot of western viewpoints revolve. From a consequentialist perspective it's remarkably common to see people actively pushing towards outcomes they don't want or towards extremes they don't quite support trough nothing but innapropriate tying togheter of ideas or the power of words. > that "woke" people are rightfully upset by this. On some fronts they are. On others I've found that people weren't exactly pulled towards their respective (extreme) political bubble. They were shoved towards it by people who consider themselves very righteous and on occasion would "prefer a pagan to a heretic" or by reality not bending towards pure expectations and kneejerk reactions when faced with that.

croon 12d ago
Just wanted to say I appreciate your response being both nuanced, clear and with no attempts at misrepresenting any of my points. It's rarer than it should be.