5 ms·

This is the classic EU thing - the much superior most rigorous program - that no one has ever heard of, that turns out products that are rebadges or clones of o

by glzone1 14d ago

This is the classic EU thing - the much superior most rigorous program - that no one has ever heard of, that turns out products that are rebadges or clones of other stuff. China has been getting more and more impressive. These EU "experts" are literally rebadging Chinese open models. 15 years ago that would have been a wild concept. China is totally OK fast following with no shame. SpaceX clone, they are getting to re-usability faster than the EU etc.

scrollaway 14d ago
Except that no, it doesn't churn "clones"; MVC is quite a serious company and working on far more interesting stuff than whatever shit the SaaS or ads company you're statistically likely working at is. EIC churns out DeepTech, invests 2.5M nondilutive with funding horizons of 10+ years and larger equity-based programmes too. Multiverse is a quantum computing company working on energy-efficient AI algorithms. The EIC is the reason companies such as ICEYE (https://www.iceye.com/ https://www.iceye.com/) can exist. The chips running all that inference going in those US datacenters being built? 99% certainly european chips, almost certainly EIC-funded. (Eg. Hailo, Axelera, ..) You haven't heard about the EIC because they don't care about marketing to americans; their target market is European companies, not you. But sorry to say, the talent is in Europe; the only reason you've been getting that talent in the US is a better business ecosystem, and your current administration has been utterly destroying this while our leaders have been actually fixing our issues. So keep shitting on Europe from the top of that crumbling hill, we'll see you when you emigrate.
- spindump8930 13d ago
  Care to comment on this model from a quite serious company being labeled as derived from GLM? Also, do you have a source for: "99% certainly european chips, almost certainly EIC-funded. (Eg. Hailo, Axelera, ..)" For Hailo, the best I can find is https://hailo.ai/products/ai-accelerators/hailo-10h-m-2-ai-acceleration-module/#hailo10m2-overview https://hailo.ai/products/ai-accelerators/hailo-10h-m-2-ai-a... Which states that this is a 40 TOPS int4 PCIe device, not what you'd put in a datacenter and certainly not what can run a frontier class model (or the model above). Embedded devices for inference are really cool! But that's the opposite end of scale for what goes into a data center.
  - scrollaway 13d ago
    I was sharing the EIC backed ones, but it's fair that in a datacenter it's more likely to be Axelera (or vsora/semidynamics if you start digging into earlier-stage competitors). Nvidia is the only American company selling AI chips to datacenters at scale but they're a huge supply chain risk so it's most DCs don't do single-supplier either way.
    - jacquesm 13d ago
      You'd need to compare by volume. And when you do that - unfortunately - NV is by far the largest supplier. 'Most DCs' are effectively single-supplier. And I wish it weren't so. This is the hard one to crack, NV needs credible competition. AMD and Intel are the only two majors that potentially could do this but they're both way behind where they should have been today. I remember doing my first bit of 'shader repurposing' a long time ago thinking 'wow, I wonder whether Intel realizes this graphics card is the more powerful processor in my computer'. Back then (in the pre-CUDA) days you had to contort yourself in the worst possible ways to get any kind of unintended computation done but when it worked it was amazing. Since those days NV has been pumping enormous effort into building out that miniscule head start that they had in the days of 'Brook' and the subsequent release of CUDA. It is going to cost a lot of money to duplicate that, and even more to compete with NV on what is now their home turf. But I really wished someone with very deep pockets would do just that.

by glzone1 14d ago

scrollaway 14d ago

Except that no, it doesn't churn "clones"; MVC is quite a serious company and working on far more interesting stuff than whatever shit the SaaS or ads company you're statistically likely working at is. EIC churns out DeepTech, invests 2.5M nondilutive with funding horizons of 10+ years and larger equity-based programmes too. Multiverse is a quantum computing company working on energy-efficient AI algorithms. The EIC is the reason companies such as ICEYE (https://www.iceye.com/ https://www.iceye.com/) can exist. The chips running all that inference going in those US datacenters being built? 99% certainly european chips, almost certainly EIC-funded. (Eg. Hailo, Axelera, ..) You haven't heard about the EIC because they don't care about marketing to americans; their target market is European companies, not you. But sorry to say, the talent is in Europe; the only reason you've been getting that talent in the US is a better business ecosystem, and your current administration has been utterly destroying this while our leaders have been actually fixing our issues. So keep shitting on Europe from the top of that crumbling hill, we'll see you when you emigrate.

spindump8930 13d ago
Care to comment on this model from a quite serious company being labeled as derived from GLM? Also, do you have a source for: "99% certainly european chips, almost certainly EIC-funded. (Eg. Hailo, Axelera, ..)" For Hailo, the best I can find is https://hailo.ai/products/ai-accelerators/hailo-10h-m-2-ai-acceleration-module/#hailo10m2-overview https://hailo.ai/products/ai-accelerators/hailo-10h-m-2-ai-a... Which states that this is a 40 TOPS int4 PCIe device, not what you'd put in a datacenter and certainly not what can run a frontier class model (or the model above). Embedded devices for inference are really cool! But that's the opposite end of scale for what goes into a data center.
- scrollaway 13d ago
  I was sharing the EIC backed ones, but it's fair that in a datacenter it's more likely to be Axelera (or vsora/semidynamics if you start digging into earlier-stage competitors). Nvidia is the only American company selling AI chips to datacenters at scale but they're a huge supply chain risk so it's most DCs don't do single-supplier either way.
  - jacquesm 13d ago
    You'd need to compare by volume. And when you do that - unfortunately - NV is by far the largest supplier. 'Most DCs' are effectively single-supplier. And I wish it weren't so. This is the hard one to crack, NV needs credible competition. AMD and Intel are the only two majors that potentially could do this but they're both way behind where they should have been today. I remember doing my first bit of 'shader repurposing' a long time ago thinking 'wow, I wonder whether Intel realizes this graphics card is the more powerful processor in my computer'. Back then (in the pre-CUDA) days you had to contort yourself in the worst possible ways to get any kind of unintended computation done but when it worked it was amazing. Since those days NV has been pumping enormous effort into building out that miniscule head start that they had in the days of 'Brook' and the subsequent release of CUDA. It is going to cost a lot of money to duplicate that, and even more to compete with NV on what is now their home turf. But I really wished someone with very deep pockets would do just that.