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I remember a debate in Texas politics a few years ago because livestock were dying from consumption of littered plastic bags. The state government response was

I remember a debate in Texas politics a few years ago because livestock were dying from consumption of littered plastic bags. The state government response was to ban the ban of plastic bags.

throwitaway222 16d ago
CA did the wrong thing for like 12 years. We just finally went back to paper bags for everything. If it ends up on a road, it won't kill animals, it will eventually break apart and turn into particulates. It's what we did before plastic bags rained from the sky into all grocery stores. And the best part: if you have permanent bags you can still use them.
- somenameforme 16d ago
  There's [very] biodegradable plastics as well. I found out my local store swapped to them in a pretty amusing way. I'd collect plastic bags to use as trash bags and the like. One day I went to grab some from under my counter there was this mess of orange confetti like stuff everywhere from some of the [orange] bags that'd degraded even in just normal storage conditions.
  - throwaway2037 16d ago
    How fast do these "[very] biodegradable plastics" degrade? Probably not as fast a wind gust can trap them in trees, or livestock can accidentally injest them.
    - somenameforme 16d ago
      I can only recount my experience with them. A quick search on the topic suggests it was probably starch/cellulose based and degradation can happen within days in ideal conditions - which generally means some sort of moisture. It was stored in an enclosed but outdoor type kitchen environment, so humidity was probably elevated relative to a normal indoor scenario.
    - dofm 16d ago
      Obviously not that fast because then they wouldn't be useful. But fairly fast, actually — the pale green food caddy liners we use in the UK break down pretty fast in our wet environment and warm wet food starts working on them within a week. They are very likely entirely gone within six months in the open air, and much faster in the bioreactor conditions that the food waste itself goes into. Though if you bury them it takes a lot longer, like with newspaper. I don't think you could make a carrier bag out of that material anyway; it's potato starch and some other polymer, basically, and it is not strong. AFAIK they are not toxic and digest in stomachs, but are not safe for ruminant animals. But then neither are waxed and printed paper bags, particularly? There are now some PHA bags being trialled by food delivery services (though why they can't use paper I don't know): that is a stronger material that does break down fully in ordinary outdoor environments without needing "bioreactor" conditions, but again I suppose the same issues for ruminants. The best strategy is obviously to eliminate plastic bags wherever possible and use as untreated paper as possible. I don't really understand the whining about the inconvenience of reusable shopping bags.
    - deleted 16d ago
      [deleted]
- throwaway2037 16d ago
  > CA did the wrong thing for like 12 years. This seems very specific. Can you explain more? I don't follow.
throwawaypath 16d ago
>The state government response was to ban the ban of plastic bags. Anything to own the libs.
- joquarky 16d ago
  They also banned fracking bans in Denton. Then on other occasions they tout politics of "local voters know what's best for themselves". Apparently they want to have it both ways, like spoiled children.

I remember a debate in Texas politics a few years ago because livestock were dying from consumption of littered plastic bags. The state government response was to ban the ban of plastic bags.

throwitaway222 16d ago

CA did the wrong thing for like 12 years. We just finally went back to paper bags for everything. If it ends up on a road, it won't kill animals, it will eventually break apart and turn into particulates. It's what we did before plastic bags rained from the sky into all grocery stores. And the best part: if you have permanent bags you can still use them.

somenameforme 16d ago
There's [very] biodegradable plastics as well. I found out my local store swapped to them in a pretty amusing way. I'd collect plastic bags to use as trash bags and the like. One day I went to grab some from under my counter there was this mess of orange confetti like stuff everywhere from some of the [orange] bags that'd degraded even in just normal storage conditions.
- throwaway2037 16d ago
  How fast do these "[very] biodegradable plastics" degrade? Probably not as fast a wind gust can trap them in trees, or livestock can accidentally injest them.
  - somenameforme 16d ago
    I can only recount my experience with them. A quick search on the topic suggests it was probably starch/cellulose based and degradation can happen within days in ideal conditions - which generally means some sort of moisture. It was stored in an enclosed but outdoor type kitchen environment, so humidity was probably elevated relative to a normal indoor scenario.
  - dofm 16d ago
    Obviously not that fast because then they wouldn't be useful. But fairly fast, actually — the pale green food caddy liners we use in the UK break down pretty fast in our wet environment and warm wet food starts working on them within a week. They are very likely entirely gone within six months in the open air, and much faster in the bioreactor conditions that the food waste itself goes into. Though if you bury them it takes a lot longer, like with newspaper. I don't think you could make a carrier bag out of that material anyway; it's potato starch and some other polymer, basically, and it is not strong. AFAIK they are not toxic and digest in stomachs, but are not safe for ruminant animals. But then neither are waxed and printed paper bags, particularly? There are now some PHA bags being trialled by food delivery services (though why they can't use paper I don't know): that is a stronger material that does break down fully in ordinary outdoor environments without needing "bioreactor" conditions, but again I suppose the same issues for ruminants. The best strategy is obviously to eliminate plastic bags wherever possible and use as untreated paper as possible. I don't really understand the whining about the inconvenience of reusable shopping bags.
  - deleted 16d ago
    [deleted]
throwaway2037 16d ago
> CA did the wrong thing for like 12 years. This seems very specific. Can you explain more? I don't follow.

throwawaypath 16d ago

>The state government response was to ban the ban of plastic bags. Anything to own the libs.

joquarky 16d ago
They also banned fracking bans in Denton. Then on other occasions they tout politics of "local voters know what's best for themselves". Apparently they want to have it both ways, like spoiled children.