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Sure, but Firefox doesn’t have to be Chrome to be unacceptable, and Chrome isn’t the only alternative. I reject the idea that Firefox can transgress as much as

Sure, but Firefox doesn’t have to be Chrome to be unacceptable, and Chrome isn’t the only alternative. I reject the idea that Firefox can transgress as much as they want as long as Chrome has gotten worse. And fuck then for buying and killing fakespot.

culi 15d ago
Chrome is the only alternative unless you have access to Safari. Brave, Opera, Edge, etc are all Chromium and will all deprecate Manifest V2 eventually. The V2 mess is just one example of how Google can continue to stangle the web even if you're not using Chrome itself.
- DrewADesign 15d ago
  I use Waterfox or Librewolf
  - culi 15d ago
    The "I use arch btw" of browsers. Jk but tbh I think group them in with Firefox
    - DrewADesign 14d ago
      Maybe librewolf, but Waterfox is a drop-in replacement. Same extension “store”, gets updates quickly, install on every OS I’ve tried (which is usually windows unfortunately) is equally as smooth as Firefox, compatible profiles, etc, etc, etc. You literally just go to a different website to get the installer. It’s harder to install FF developer edition.
      - culi 14d ago
        They both use Gecko under the hood and can install any Firefox Add-on. If you want something truly different, try a Goanna-based browser like Pale Moon or Basilisk Tired: Firefox Wired: Floorp, Midori, Mullvad Browser, SeaMonkey, Waterfox, Zen, GNU Icecat Inspired: Basilisk, Pale Moon
        DrewADesign 14d ago
        Speaking of “I use arch btw”
- qsera 15d ago
  >Chrome is the only alternative The future looks pretty clear to me. We will have to use two browsers. One government approved, google (or some other thing) vetted browser for all the official and banking stuff. One other for all the other causal stuff. This would be bundled as a single package, with something like firefox containers automatically switching to the "approved" browser based on domain loaded in the tab.
  - usernomdeguerre 15d ago
    Once a browser is "Government Approved" all the other are 'Unapproved' ipso facto. There's nothing clear about that future, imo.
    - qsera 15d ago
      By government approved, I meant only to access government websites/applications.
- theamk 15d ago
  Chrome != Chromium engine Most of the Chromium-based browsers remove Google's telemetry and integrations, so if someone has a problem with Chrome "looking over my shoulder", then they have many more alternatives. And sure, Manifest V2 will disappear in all those forks, but many browsers have built-in adblocker instead, for example both Opera and Brave claim to. And other than adblockers, what else is lost in Manifest V2? Mind you, I am still using Firefox, but saying "the only alternatives are Chrome and Firefox" is completely incorrect.
  - culi 15d ago
    > Chrome != Chromium engine This exactly what I disagree with and I think I supported my argument quite clearly. The more we say "Chrome is not Chromium" the more stuff like V2 will happen. At some point we need to admit that the dominance of Chromium does in fact give Google power over the web
  - Itoldmyselfso 15d ago
    Google controls Chromium to the extent they can impose changes like manifest v3 and while some forks like Brave will try to circumvent such changes, it will eventually become too costly or incompatible to maintain. It is kind of the same daydream as the Windows 11 debloaters have that if they just keep doing that, everything will be okay. That is until Microsoft implements features they can no longer fully disable, like recall, or just exercise their control to revert any changes at will.
- evilduck 15d ago
  Epiphany on Linux is a pretty straightforward Webkit browser. Konqueror still exists. Ladybird is up and coming. Servo is still making progress.
dd8601fn 14d ago
> I reject the idea that Firefox can transgress as much as they want as long as Chrome has gotten worse. Well, then the good news is nobody is saying that. There’s room for people to disagree on what constitutes a serious “transgression”, though.

culi 15d ago

Chrome is the only alternative unless you have access to Safari. Brave, Opera, Edge, etc are all Chromium and will all deprecate Manifest V2 eventually. The V2 mess is just one example of how Google can continue to stangle the web even if you're not using Chrome itself.

DrewADesign 15d ago
I use Waterfox or Librewolf
- culi 15d ago
  The "I use arch btw" of browsers. Jk but tbh I think group them in with Firefox
  - DrewADesign 14d ago
    Maybe librewolf, but Waterfox is a drop-in replacement. Same extension “store”, gets updates quickly, install on every OS I’ve tried (which is usually windows unfortunately) is equally as smooth as Firefox, compatible profiles, etc, etc, etc. You literally just go to a different website to get the installer. It’s harder to install FF developer edition.
    - culi 14d ago
      They both use Gecko under the hood and can install any Firefox Add-on. If you want something truly different, try a Goanna-based browser like Pale Moon or Basilisk Tired: Firefox Wired: Floorp, Midori, Mullvad Browser, SeaMonkey, Waterfox, Zen, GNU Icecat Inspired: Basilisk, Pale Moon
      - DrewADesign 14d ago
        Speaking of “I use arch btw”
qsera 15d ago
>Chrome is the only alternative The future looks pretty clear to me. We will have to use two browsers. One government approved, google (or some other thing) vetted browser for all the official and banking stuff. One other for all the other causal stuff. This would be bundled as a single package, with something like firefox containers automatically switching to the "approved" browser based on domain loaded in the tab.
- usernomdeguerre 15d ago
  Once a browser is "Government Approved" all the other are 'Unapproved' ipso facto. There's nothing clear about that future, imo.
  - qsera 15d ago
    By government approved, I meant only to access government websites/applications.
theamk 15d ago
Chrome != Chromium engine Most of the Chromium-based browsers remove Google's telemetry and integrations, so if someone has a problem with Chrome "looking over my shoulder", then they have many more alternatives. And sure, Manifest V2 will disappear in all those forks, but many browsers have built-in adblocker instead, for example both Opera and Brave claim to. And other than adblockers, what else is lost in Manifest V2? Mind you, I am still using Firefox, but saying "the only alternatives are Chrome and Firefox" is completely incorrect.
- culi 15d ago
  > Chrome != Chromium engine This exactly what I disagree with and I think I supported my argument quite clearly. The more we say "Chrome is not Chromium" the more stuff like V2 will happen. At some point we need to admit that the dominance of Chromium does in fact give Google power over the web
- Itoldmyselfso 15d ago
  Google controls Chromium to the extent they can impose changes like manifest v3 and while some forks like Brave will try to circumvent such changes, it will eventually become too costly or incompatible to maintain. It is kind of the same daydream as the Windows 11 debloaters have that if they just keep doing that, everything will be okay. That is until Microsoft implements features they can no longer fully disable, like recall, or just exercise their control to revert any changes at will.
evilduck 15d ago
Epiphany on Linux is a pretty straightforward Webkit browser. Konqueror still exists. Ladybird is up and coming. Servo is still making progress.

dd8601fn 14d ago

> I reject the idea that Firefox can transgress as much as they want as long as Chrome has gotten worse. Well, then the good news is nobody is saying that. There’s room for people to disagree on what constitutes a serious “transgression”, though.