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> The man has no political skill This is what I take issue with. It's a heavy enough accusation that it needs receipts. It needs proper framing on why exactly

> The man has no political skill This is what I take issue with. It's a heavy enough accusation that it needs receipts. It needs proper framing on why exactly the benchmarks you've listed are important for delineating political skill and why other benchmarks are not.

SR2Z 14d ago
Sure, here are a few that are directly relevant to political jobs: - legislation proposed and passed - elections won (i.e. candidate WAR) - ability to make backroom deals - campaigning skills He's not good at any of those except the last one. I've mentioned the bills, he lost two primaries (his staffers engaged in election denialism both times), only has a seat because he's in a safe Dem state, and has a reputation for being a difficult politician to work with. He is obviously out-of-touch with American voters, his policy proposals are very fluffy and barely substantial, and about the nicest thing I can about his campaigns is that they draw in an enthusiastic crowd, but not one that seems to vote for him and his candidates. Progressives have much better politicians now: Mamdani, AOC, Al-Sayed. If all of them can deliver like Mamdani - who might genuinely have the best political skills of any American politician living now - then maybe this "what if Bernie won" stuff could actually work. But Sanders would have crashed and burned the second the GOP shut down the government, because he's not good at convincing people who disagree with him.
- soulofmischief 13d ago
  Can you name another serious candidate at the time who had both political skill to your liking and also was an actual honest-to-god man of the people, even if some their policies are out of touch or misguided? Virtue alone was a good enough reason to make it an obvious choice for me, I'm not even here to defend his actual political prowess.
  - SR2Z 12d ago
    FFS, Biden won on the most left-leaning platform of any politician in history. Considering that he actually won the primary, I would consider him to be much more of a "man of the people" than Sanders. Even Mitt Romney, who has the WRONG LETTER NEXT TO HIS NAME, spearheaded bipartisan COVID tax reforms that halved childhood poverty. I think calling someone a man of the people requires them to have successfully accomplished things on behalf of the people. Sanders... has really not.
    - soulofmischief 12d ago
      It's pretty silly to call Biden's platform more left-leaning than Sanders'. Also, Biden in office has been a typical right-leaning (by any other country's standards) democrat. What he campaigned on means nothing. > Considering that he actually won the primary, I would consider him to be much more of a "man of the people" than Sanders. This is how I know you are either being disingenuous or ignorant, so your arrogance is not warranted. Sanders was snubbed and cheated by the DNC during his 2016 campaign and they did not support him seriously the second time around. At the time, he felt a Democrat victory was more important than Trump winning, saw how the DNC was treating him and backed down in order to support Biden. > I think calling someone a man of the people requires them to have successfully accomplished things on behalf of the people. Sanders... has really not. Sure, if we start choosing arbitrary definitions for things, you can make any point that you'd like. However, there is little use in you redefining words that I used, because then it's just a straw man. When I say "man of the people", I mean someone who has my and your best interest at heart. That is not Joe Biden nor Kamala Harris nor the DNC nor Trump nor Vance nor the GOP. Doing some good here and there doesn't erase Biden's legacy as an extreme warhawk, as the man who wrote the Patriot act, as someone who expanded our national domestic surveillance network, as an Israeli-Palestinian genocide supporter and a host of other horrible anti-democratic things. You're disregarding the entire point, that the status quo is not working, and literally anyone with their heart in the right place is an improvement over the majority of politicians working in the legislative and executive branches today. Clearly you're getting emotionally upset, your little "FFS" is not needed, your patronizing attitude is not needed. If you want to have a political discussion, great. If you're just here to belittle me while displaying your own ignorance, we can cut this short here.
    - jjav 11d ago
      > FFS, Biden won on the most left-leaning platform of any politician in history. This is completely disconnected from reality. Biden would have been considered a republican in any era except the current hyper-extremist times.

SR2Z 14d ago

Sure, here are a few that are directly relevant to political jobs: - legislation proposed and passed - elections won (i.e. candidate WAR) - ability to make backroom deals - campaigning skills He's not good at any of those except the last one. I've mentioned the bills, he lost two primaries (his staffers engaged in election denialism both times), only has a seat because he's in a safe Dem state, and has a reputation for being a difficult politician to work with. He is obviously out-of-touch with American voters, his policy proposals are very fluffy and barely substantial, and about the nicest thing I can about his campaigns is that they draw in an enthusiastic crowd, but not one that seems to vote for him and his candidates. Progressives have much better politicians now: Mamdani, AOC, Al-Sayed. If all of them can deliver like Mamdani - who might genuinely have the best political skills of any American politician living now - then maybe this "what if Bernie won" stuff could actually work. But Sanders would have crashed and burned the second the GOP shut down the government, because he's not good at convincing people who disagree with him.

soulofmischief 13d ago
Can you name another serious candidate at the time who had both political skill to your liking and also was an actual honest-to-god man of the people, even if some their policies are out of touch or misguided? Virtue alone was a good enough reason to make it an obvious choice for me, I'm not even here to defend his actual political prowess.
- SR2Z 12d ago
  FFS, Biden won on the most left-leaning platform of any politician in history. Considering that he actually won the primary, I would consider him to be much more of a "man of the people" than Sanders. Even Mitt Romney, who has the WRONG LETTER NEXT TO HIS NAME, spearheaded bipartisan COVID tax reforms that halved childhood poverty. I think calling someone a man of the people requires them to have successfully accomplished things on behalf of the people. Sanders... has really not.
  - soulofmischief 12d ago
    It's pretty silly to call Biden's platform more left-leaning than Sanders'. Also, Biden in office has been a typical right-leaning (by any other country's standards) democrat. What he campaigned on means nothing. > Considering that he actually won the primary, I would consider him to be much more of a "man of the people" than Sanders. This is how I know you are either being disingenuous or ignorant, so your arrogance is not warranted. Sanders was snubbed and cheated by the DNC during his 2016 campaign and they did not support him seriously the second time around. At the time, he felt a Democrat victory was more important than Trump winning, saw how the DNC was treating him and backed down in order to support Biden. > I think calling someone a man of the people requires them to have successfully accomplished things on behalf of the people. Sanders... has really not. Sure, if we start choosing arbitrary definitions for things, you can make any point that you'd like. However, there is little use in you redefining words that I used, because then it's just a straw man. When I say "man of the people", I mean someone who has my and your best interest at heart. That is not Joe Biden nor Kamala Harris nor the DNC nor Trump nor Vance nor the GOP. Doing some good here and there doesn't erase Biden's legacy as an extreme warhawk, as the man who wrote the Patriot act, as someone who expanded our national domestic surveillance network, as an Israeli-Palestinian genocide supporter and a host of other horrible anti-democratic things. You're disregarding the entire point, that the status quo is not working, and literally anyone with their heart in the right place is an improvement over the majority of politicians working in the legislative and executive branches today. Clearly you're getting emotionally upset, your little "FFS" is not needed, your patronizing attitude is not needed. If you want to have a political discussion, great. If you're just here to belittle me while displaying your own ignorance, we can cut this short here.
  - jjav 11d ago
    > FFS, Biden won on the most left-leaning platform of any politician in history. This is completely disconnected from reality. Biden would have been considered a republican in any era except the current hyper-extremist times.