6 ms·

I agree that ADHD is a serious condition for many people, and that it's overly romanticized and that isn't good when it comes to getting help for those that do

I agree that ADHD is a serious condition for many people, and that it's overly romanticized and that isn't good when it comes to getting help for those that do need it. To that point, I'm going push back on this language just a bit: > you end up addicted and pretty much permanently require drugs to function well That is negatively framing medication, which if taken properly as prescribed is no different than any other medication someone might take to help with a chronic health condition. It slightly encourages and leans into the idea that ADHD is "fixable" without medication and so taking medication is a problem (or due to a weakness, etc). I'm not discounting the value of other forms of non-medical treatment, but in many case medication IS appropriate as part of the overall treatment that a person requires to manage their ADHD. We should not use language that stigmatizes treatment that should be between a person and their doctor.

schlauerfox 16d ago
This Doctor's videos reframed the clinical work and actual research for me, very informative and helpful to me personally. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0tLWu7ljYVFPiZQfHjTMsA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0tLWu7ljYVFPiZQfHjTMsA
- LocalPCGuy 16d ago
  Dr. Barkley does a great job presenting research and factual information in a way that is easy to understand and I've also found it very helpful personally. Was diagnosed in adulthood, so resources like this were great finds during my hyperfocus dive into gaining some measure of understanding of ADHD.
nullpt_rs 16d ago
Agree with original commenter but +1 to reframing the language. I was very afraid to begin medication because I would always hear about how addicting this medication can be. But like you say, you wouldn't tell someone with diabetes that they're addicted to insulin.
- paimapi 16d ago
  fully agreed with this. it's the same stigma that I see get applied to SSRIs - that you become 'dependent' on medication, it's not 'natural', etc in reality, if the side effects are minimal and you function better on it, it's a sip of water and a pill a day and that's largely it for health outcomes. most drug interventions are generally extremely well-studied with very large sample sizes. there's a reason why clinical research is considered gold-standard - the regulatory requirements to even get a drug to market is monumental and some of the most rigorously audited and vetted processes in the world the ironic thing is that most of the big pharma detractors are also ingesting dozens of supplements, the vast majority of which have little to no good empirical evidence backing them (and very small effect sizes to boot) along with even less regulatory oversight for issues like contamination, formulation, or if it even contains the active ingredient. which isn't to say that 'big pharma' doesn't often pursue avenues for profitability reasons instead of the public good but that's not the typical critique that an anti-empiricist brings most times
- jaggederest 16d ago
  I'm addicted to several things. Like eyeglasses, and breathing. The difference the medication makes is similarly revelatory to putting on eyeglasses. Of course you never want to take them off. There's no withdrawal symptoms, per se, for most people, the addiction is purely psychological from "trying to drive with only 3 tires sucks"
  - __float 16d ago
    That's not really an "addiction" by any reasonable meaning besides "something I do often". The actual meaning is more complex, involving inability to stop, negative effects on your life, etc. - none of which apply to wearing your glasses or breathing.
    - jaggederest 16d ago
      You... don't think there are negative effects to stopping breathing? If you can be behaviorally addicted to gambling, or even more aptly eating, you can be behaviorally addicted to medication that doesn't give you any physiological dependency. > The DSM-5 has re-classified the condition [ed: gambling addiction] as an addictive disorder, with those affected exhibiting many similarities to those with substance use disorder. They both activate a reward mechanism in the brain, causing dopamine release to reinforce repetitive behavior. Both often lead to loss of control. Edit: to engage more substantively, imagine if your glasses gave you, say, mild skin irritation that progressively got worse with wear, but you chose to mitigate that and wear them anyway. I would rate it at that level.
hackingonempty 16d ago
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- deleted 16d ago
  [deleted]
drakythe 16d ago
I think it is also worth reframing what "functioning well" means. Society expects certain things of us and our brains function in a way that those things are more difficult. Is that our fault, or society, or some mix? Isn't it possible that society itself could adjust in such a way that people who naturally struggle to sit in a cubicle doing the same thing all day every day could be offered other options? Seems like our capitalistic system that requires "productive" work as measured by those who already control the capital is maybe also a problem here. I'm on stimulants and I agree that the post you responded to needed reframing. But I think we do ourselves and anyone else who isn't "normal" in body or mind a huge disservice just focusing on acceptance of treatment when there are larger societal changes that could be made.
- OkayPhysicist 16d ago
  I can't fix society. I can, however, take a pill that lets me hold down a job long enough to not fall into crippling debt.
- LocalPCGuy 16d ago
  I agree and it would be great if we could do that and ideally there would be roles for people that are not able to maintain the strict structure and their contributions were valued even if different. That said, I think we agree that accepting the treatment folks need to function in society as it exists is a step in the right direction.
  - drakythe 14d ago
    Oh yes, absolutely. Meds are extremely useful and given the choice between "fight myself AND the system" or just "fight the system" I'll choose to stop fighting myself every time.

schlauerfox 16d ago

This Doctor's videos reframed the clinical work and actual research for me, very informative and helpful to me personally. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0tLWu7ljYVFPiZQfHjTMsA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0tLWu7ljYVFPiZQfHjTMsA

LocalPCGuy 16d ago
Dr. Barkley does a great job presenting research and factual information in a way that is easy to understand and I've also found it very helpful personally. Was diagnosed in adulthood, so resources like this were great finds during my hyperfocus dive into gaining some measure of understanding of ADHD.

nullpt_rs 16d ago

Agree with original commenter but +1 to reframing the language. I was very afraid to begin medication because I would always hear about how addicting this medication can be. But like you say, you wouldn't tell someone with diabetes that they're addicted to insulin.

paimapi 16d ago
fully agreed with this. it's the same stigma that I see get applied to SSRIs - that you become 'dependent' on medication, it's not 'natural', etc in reality, if the side effects are minimal and you function better on it, it's a sip of water and a pill a day and that's largely it for health outcomes. most drug interventions are generally extremely well-studied with very large sample sizes. there's a reason why clinical research is considered gold-standard - the regulatory requirements to even get a drug to market is monumental and some of the most rigorously audited and vetted processes in the world the ironic thing is that most of the big pharma detractors are also ingesting dozens of supplements, the vast majority of which have little to no good empirical evidence backing them (and very small effect sizes to boot) along with even less regulatory oversight for issues like contamination, formulation, or if it even contains the active ingredient. which isn't to say that 'big pharma' doesn't often pursue avenues for profitability reasons instead of the public good but that's not the typical critique that an anti-empiricist brings most times
jaggederest 16d ago
I'm addicted to several things. Like eyeglasses, and breathing. The difference the medication makes is similarly revelatory to putting on eyeglasses. Of course you never want to take them off. There's no withdrawal symptoms, per se, for most people, the addiction is purely psychological from "trying to drive with only 3 tires sucks"
- __float 16d ago
  That's not really an "addiction" by any reasonable meaning besides "something I do often". The actual meaning is more complex, involving inability to stop, negative effects on your life, etc. - none of which apply to wearing your glasses or breathing.
  - jaggederest 16d ago
    You... don't think there are negative effects to stopping breathing? If you can be behaviorally addicted to gambling, or even more aptly eating, you can be behaviorally addicted to medication that doesn't give you any physiological dependency. > The DSM-5 has re-classified the condition [ed: gambling addiction] as an addictive disorder, with those affected exhibiting many similarities to those with substance use disorder. They both activate a reward mechanism in the brain, causing dopamine release to reinforce repetitive behavior. Both often lead to loss of control. Edit: to engage more substantively, imagine if your glasses gave you, say, mild skin irritation that progressively got worse with wear, but you chose to mitigate that and wear them anyway. I would rate it at that level.

hackingonempty 16d ago

[flagged]

deleted 16d ago
[deleted]

drakythe 16d ago

I think it is also worth reframing what "functioning well" means. Society expects certain things of us and our brains function in a way that those things are more difficult. Is that our fault, or society, or some mix? Isn't it possible that society itself could adjust in such a way that people who naturally struggle to sit in a cubicle doing the same thing all day every day could be offered other options? Seems like our capitalistic system that requires "productive" work as measured by those who already control the capital is maybe also a problem here. I'm on stimulants and I agree that the post you responded to needed reframing. But I think we do ourselves and anyone else who isn't "normal" in body or mind a huge disservice just focusing on acceptance of treatment when there are larger societal changes that could be made.

OkayPhysicist 16d ago
I can't fix society. I can, however, take a pill that lets me hold down a job long enough to not fall into crippling debt.
LocalPCGuy 16d ago
I agree and it would be great if we could do that and ideally there would be roles for people that are not able to maintain the strict structure and their contributions were valued even if different. That said, I think we agree that accepting the treatment folks need to function in society as it exists is a step in the right direction.
- drakythe 14d ago
  Oh yes, absolutely. Meds are extremely useful and given the choice between "fight myself AND the system" or just "fight the system" I'll choose to stop fighting myself every time.