5 ms·

> Would be pretty stupid to spend all this energy erecting stones just for the view of it I think the same way looking at medieval cathedrals or Roman and Gree

> Would be pretty stupid to spend all this energy erecting stones just for the view of it I think the same way looking at medieval cathedrals or Roman and Greek era theatres, collesiums, and agoras... At least the Ottomans used the Parthenon as an arms depot, giving those stones some meaning. (This is sarcasm)

theodric 17d ago
It wasn't "for the view," it was, in no particular order, and non-exhaustively: * To provide work * To serve as a reminder of the power and authority of the church * To glorify God * To make sure all the other nearby kingdoms were aware of how much cooler you are than them
- alephnerd 17d ago
  sarcasm (noun) - the use of words that mean the opposite of what one intends to say especially in order to insult, to show irritation, or to be funny : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on ironic and usually bitter and caustic language often directed against an individual or idea.
- IAmBroom 17d ago
  > * To provide work Cite required. Work in a pre-industrial agrarian society is ever-present, unless there's a drought. (Although in that case the coffin builders may need extra hands.)
  - theodric 17d ago
    That's a simplistic, reductive, and uninformed expression of history which completely disregards the roles of the artisan, merchant, innkeeper, or any of the numerous other trades which kept early economies moving. Not everyone was a hand-to-mouth peasant farmer, either in medieval Europe, or in earlier points in history. The building of a cathedral provided generations of employment for stonemasons, men involved in felling and shipping timber, men involved in cutting and shipping stone, as well as people responsible for feeding the workers, making and repairing their tools, etc.; and once built, the cathedral would be a draw for pilgrims, who would need places to stay, food to eat, and so on. A cathedral provides work.
    - bleuarff 13d ago
      Without disregarding other lines of work, but from the neolithic revolution to the early modern times, the vast majority of the population were farmers. Quoting Brett Deveraux: "Prior to the industrial revolution, peasant farmers of varying types made up the overwhelming majority of people in settled societies (the sort with cities and writing). And when I say overwhelming, I mean overwhelming: we generally estimate these societies to have consisted of upwards of 80% peasant farmers, often as high as 90 or even 95%." (https://acoup.blog/2025/07/11/collections-life-work-death-and-the-peasant-part-i-households/ https://acoup.blog/2025/07/11/collections-life-work-death-an...)
    - YurgenJurgensen 13d ago
      To elaborate: A lot of that labour was what we would term ‘strategically important’. It is well understood today the importance of stabilising demand for strategic industries (such as those involved in the construction of weapons, siege engines, warships, fortifications, et cetera). While they may not have understood it in exactly these terms, it seems that at some level keeping these people around in times of uncertain demand would have been seen as more than simple charity.
Projectiboga 17d ago
The cathedral movement started in 1006 with a quiet goal to redirect resources away from the crusades. It was also from a sort of cultural vacuum after the world didn't end at the turn of the millennium.
- jcranmer 17d ago
  1006 is 90 years before the First Crusade...

theodric 17d ago

It wasn't "for the view," it was, in no particular order, and non-exhaustively: * To provide work * To serve as a reminder of the power and authority of the church * To glorify God * To make sure all the other nearby kingdoms were aware of how much cooler you are than them

alephnerd 17d ago
sarcasm (noun) - the use of words that mean the opposite of what one intends to say especially in order to insult, to show irritation, or to be funny : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on ironic and usually bitter and caustic language often directed against an individual or idea.
IAmBroom 17d ago
> * To provide work Cite required. Work in a pre-industrial agrarian society is ever-present, unless there's a drought. (Although in that case the coffin builders may need extra hands.)
- theodric 17d ago
  That's a simplistic, reductive, and uninformed expression of history which completely disregards the roles of the artisan, merchant, innkeeper, or any of the numerous other trades which kept early economies moving. Not everyone was a hand-to-mouth peasant farmer, either in medieval Europe, or in earlier points in history. The building of a cathedral provided generations of employment for stonemasons, men involved in felling and shipping timber, men involved in cutting and shipping stone, as well as people responsible for feeding the workers, making and repairing their tools, etc.; and once built, the cathedral would be a draw for pilgrims, who would need places to stay, food to eat, and so on. A cathedral provides work.
  - bleuarff 13d ago
    Without disregarding other lines of work, but from the neolithic revolution to the early modern times, the vast majority of the population were farmers. Quoting Brett Deveraux: "Prior to the industrial revolution, peasant farmers of varying types made up the overwhelming majority of people in settled societies (the sort with cities and writing). And when I say overwhelming, I mean overwhelming: we generally estimate these societies to have consisted of upwards of 80% peasant farmers, often as high as 90 or even 95%." (https://acoup.blog/2025/07/11/collections-life-work-death-and-the-peasant-part-i-households/ https://acoup.blog/2025/07/11/collections-life-work-death-an...)
  - YurgenJurgensen 13d ago
    To elaborate: A lot of that labour was what we would term ‘strategically important’. It is well understood today the importance of stabilising demand for strategic industries (such as those involved in the construction of weapons, siege engines, warships, fortifications, et cetera). While they may not have understood it in exactly these terms, it seems that at some level keeping these people around in times of uncertain demand would have been seen as more than simple charity.

Projectiboga 17d ago

The cathedral movement started in 1006 with a quiet goal to redirect resources away from the crusades. It was also from a sort of cultural vacuum after the world didn't end at the turn of the millennium.

jcranmer 17d ago
1006 is 90 years before the First Crusade...