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Support for the general argument: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notwehr_(Deutschland) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notwehr_(Deutschland) > Bereits der Diebsta

by bulbar 18d ago

Support for the general argument: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notwehr_(Deutschland) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notwehr_(Deutschland) > Bereits der Diebstahl mittelwertiger Gegenstände darf nach herrschender Meinung jedoch auch mit einer tödlichen Abwehrhandlung vereitelt werden, sollten mildere Mittel (wie Warnschüsse oder Schüsse auf die Beine) nicht zum Erfolg geführt haben bzw. nicht zur Verfügung stehen.[73][55][56] > However, according to prevailing opinion, even the theft of items of moderate value may be thwarted by lethal self-defense if less severe measures (such as warning shots or shots aimed at the legs) have failed or are not available.[73][55][56] More specifically, a teacher slapping a child to defend against six year old children: https://www.lawblog.de/archives/2016/09/08/richter-billigen-ohrfeige-von-der-klassenaufsicht/ https://www.lawblog.de/archives/2016/09/08/richter-billigen-... https://famos.jura.uni-wuerzburg.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/famos_1216.pdf https://famos.jura.uni-wuerzburg.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/... He was also hit by the six year olds, but the court explicitly mentions the attack on his honor as well as foundation for their judgement. Slapping the child was deemed to be the mildest mean for defence and therefore lawful. Just to iterate on the first point, even theft of values starting as low as 100 Euro could justify lethal force. Knowing that honor is a protected right, it should not be surprising that hitting somebody can be justified when one get heavily and continuously insulted.

weinzierl 18d ago
You are shifting goalposts. Your claims were that "not getting insulted is a protected right in Germany that you generally lawfully defendable under the "Notwehr" laws." and that "you may hit someone who keeps insulting you.". Both are false.
- bulbar 16d ago
  Not sure what you mean, I provided sources and examples for both. More sources: > Mithin kann das Recht auf Notwehr grundsätzlich auch bei einer Beleidigung greifen und nicht etwa nur bei einer Körperverletzung oder Ähnlichem. > Consequently, the right to self-defense can, in principle, also apply in the case of an insult, and not just in cases of bodily injury or similar offenses. https://www.anwalt.org/notwehr/ https://www.anwalt.org/notwehr/ Yes, the specific sentence you quoted was too hand waiving, not every insult can result in lawful self defence, but generally, defending against insults can be lawful. Similarly, not everything somebody writes is protected by copyright, but generally what somebody writes can be protected by copyright.

by bulbar 18d ago

weinzierl 18d ago

You are shifting goalposts. Your claims were that "not getting insulted is a protected right in Germany that you generally lawfully defendable under the "Notwehr" laws." and that "you may hit someone who keeps insulting you.". Both are false.

bulbar 16d ago
Not sure what you mean, I provided sources and examples for both. More sources: > Mithin kann das Recht auf Notwehr grundsätzlich auch bei einer Beleidigung greifen und nicht etwa nur bei einer Körperverletzung oder Ähnlichem. > Consequently, the right to self-defense can, in principle, also apply in the case of an insult, and not just in cases of bodily injury or similar offenses. https://www.anwalt.org/notwehr/ https://www.anwalt.org/notwehr/ Yes, the specific sentence you quoted was too hand waiving, not every insult can result in lawful self defence, but generally, defending against insults can be lawful. Similarly, not everything somebody writes is protected by copyright, but generally what somebody writes can be protected by copyright.