7 ms·

No new members until veto is dealt with, thanks.

by akmarinov 18d ago

LaurensBER 18d ago
I'm afraid we'll need more reforms than just a veto reform before the EU would be effective but it's a good start.
- epolanski 18d ago
  The EU is tremendously effective, is just that the narratives are always about emphasizing the shortcomings.
  - ur-whale 18d ago
    > The EU is tremendously effective It certainly is, but unfortunately not at very many actually positive things. When it comes to wasting money and being completely ham-fisted with regulation though, I agree with you 100%
  - LaurensBER 17d ago
    The EU is definitely better than not having an EU but is absolutely not living up to its full potential as is evident by the low trust in it and the lackluster economic growth of the EU.
    - epolanski 17d ago
      Which is highly driven by nationalism, and the fixation of every country to impose their regulations instead of going towards a common set of rules. Because when it comes to "hey, what if we make the market actually more open, and easier for Spanish companies to sell in Hungary and viceversa?", we get into: "nope, in Hungary you need to abide to Hungarian laws for shipping. In Hungary you need to abide to Hungarian safety laws. In Hungary you need to register this products with all of this documentation and yada, yada, yada". You can swap Spain and Hungary with most other countries. And the same applies at every level. Data and privacy protection? Nope, each country overrides with its own rules. Sadly, it's very easy for politicians to play the "EU won't tell us how to do X" card, and at the same time "EU don't work!". Uneducated fools, especially those not involved with scaling across EU, whether with physical goods or services simply don't understand those things. It's mini-Brexit-like nonsense all of the time. I see it very vividly as a Polish Italian seeing the same non sense narratives in both countries, while working for a German company that attempts to scale across borders. By the way: 1. trust in EU is generally higher than distrust. 2. economic growth is lackluster in most of the world. Sadly EU has always been fixated on being an export economy so it now pays especially high both energy prices and better competition. It should've been focused instead of creating a strong internal market instead.
epolanski 18d ago
I'm not sure whether I agree or not as an European. I think vetos accomplish exactly what they need to accomplish: unanimity. Majority arguments are dangerous if then you start to get different factions and tear the EU from the inside. Veto rules are simple and effective. What I'd like instead is for a proper reform of what can be delegated (and thus not vetoed at all) and what can. I think, e.g., there should be a larger push to delegate foreign affairs and military to the supranational entity. And it should be achieved in small but decisive, non vetoable steps.
- fmajid 17d ago
  Vetos also allowed Russian stooges like Orbán (and now Fico) to block essential aid to Ukraine.

No new members until veto is dealt with, thanks.

LaurensBER 18d ago

I'm afraid we'll need more reforms than just a veto reform before the EU would be effective but it's a good start.

epolanski 18d ago
The EU is tremendously effective, is just that the narratives are always about emphasizing the shortcomings.
- ur-whale 18d ago
  > The EU is tremendously effective It certainly is, but unfortunately not at very many actually positive things. When it comes to wasting money and being completely ham-fisted with regulation though, I agree with you 100%
- LaurensBER 17d ago
  The EU is definitely better than not having an EU but is absolutely not living up to its full potential as is evident by the low trust in it and the lackluster economic growth of the EU.
  - epolanski 17d ago
    Which is highly driven by nationalism, and the fixation of every country to impose their regulations instead of going towards a common set of rules. Because when it comes to "hey, what if we make the market actually more open, and easier for Spanish companies to sell in Hungary and viceversa?", we get into: "nope, in Hungary you need to abide to Hungarian laws for shipping. In Hungary you need to abide to Hungarian safety laws. In Hungary you need to register this products with all of this documentation and yada, yada, yada". You can swap Spain and Hungary with most other countries. And the same applies at every level. Data and privacy protection? Nope, each country overrides with its own rules. Sadly, it's very easy for politicians to play the "EU won't tell us how to do X" card, and at the same time "EU don't work!". Uneducated fools, especially those not involved with scaling across EU, whether with physical goods or services simply don't understand those things. It's mini-Brexit-like nonsense all of the time. I see it very vividly as a Polish Italian seeing the same non sense narratives in both countries, while working for a German company that attempts to scale across borders. By the way: 1. trust in EU is generally higher than distrust. 2. economic growth is lackluster in most of the world. Sadly EU has always been fixated on being an export economy so it now pays especially high both energy prices and better competition. It should've been focused instead of creating a strong internal market instead.

epolanski 18d ago

I'm not sure whether I agree or not as an European. I think vetos accomplish exactly what they need to accomplish: unanimity. Majority arguments are dangerous if then you start to get different factions and tear the EU from the inside. Veto rules are simple and effective. What I'd like instead is for a proper reform of what can be delegated (and thus not vetoed at all) and what can. I think, e.g., there should be a larger push to delegate foreign affairs and military to the supranational entity. And it should be achieved in small but decisive, non vetoable steps.

fmajid 17d ago
Vetos also allowed Russian stooges like Orbán (and now Fico) to block essential aid to Ukraine.