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Agreed. Wrapping token spend is great for pumping your revenue numbers (congrats to them on $60B!), but doesn’t seem sustainable over the long term. Big reason

by nab 19d ago

Agreed. Wrapping token spend is great for pumping your revenue numbers (congrats to them on $60B!), but doesn’t seem sustainable over the long term. Big reason we built https://boxes.dev https://boxes.dev around the model harnesses (Codex + Claude Code), so you can bring your own subscriptions.

repeekad 19d ago
Surely the days of being able to “bring your own subscription” to a third party platform are also numbered?
- nab 19d ago
  I’m not so sure… Claude backtracked on this when they tried it
  - DANmode 19d ago
    They played pigeon on discless videogame consoles a time or two, too. How long have you been in tech, outta curiosity? Edit: great answer.
    - Dylan16807 19d ago
      > Edit: great answer. What do you mean by that? If you're being sassy about a downvote then I'll remind you that when you reply to a comment, that person can't downvote your reply. Also this is an account with barely any comments or points, I'm pretty sure they can't downvote at all.
      - DANmode 19d ago
        I’ll remind the reader if they downvote without mentioning why, there’s no opinion really being conveyed. Just a stub of a conversation. I don’t care about the points. Just the chat, which seems finished.
        Dylan16807 19d ago
        Sure, no opinion really being conveyed. But it didn't come from the person you were talking to, so editing on a sarcastic "great answer" doesn't really work. The person you were talking to just hadn't responded within the first hour. They still might.
        DANmode 18d ago
        If “community outreach” or “marketing” happens to reappear on their agent’s to-do list, then maybe!
- Eridrus 19d ago
  On one hand, yes, it doesn't make sense to give out subsidized tokens forever. On the other hand, subscriptions create lock-in in a way that API pricing doesn't. I think a more likely end is that subscription value decreases over time because API pricing gets more reasonable, but subscriptions stay because they are a good way of getting money out of people consistently.
  - landl0rd 19d ago
    Right, subscriptions are not only cheaper because they "create lock-in". They also let you do things like forecast demand and plan your capacity for it, borrow against it sometimes if you need to, and keep somewhat less around because your cashflows are predictable. It is also valuable because it keeps customers around but that's by no means the only reason recurring revenue gets a higher multiple. This is why "subsidized tokens" is possibly a misnomer. Money at lower variance is worth more than the same money at higher variance. Not "subsidy" so much as reducing risk and passing some of that to a consumer.
    - Eridrus 9d ago
      You just described the benefits of customers being locked in?

by nab 19d ago

repeekad 19d ago

Surely the days of being able to “bring your own subscription” to a third party platform are also numbered?

nab 19d ago
I’m not so sure… Claude backtracked on this when they tried it
- DANmode 19d ago
  They played pigeon on discless videogame consoles a time or two, too. How long have you been in tech, outta curiosity? Edit: great answer.
  - Dylan16807 19d ago
    > Edit: great answer. What do you mean by that? If you're being sassy about a downvote then I'll remind you that when you reply to a comment, that person can't downvote your reply. Also this is an account with barely any comments or points, I'm pretty sure they can't downvote at all.
    - DANmode 19d ago
      I’ll remind the reader if they downvote without mentioning why, there’s no opinion really being conveyed. Just a stub of a conversation. I don’t care about the points. Just the chat, which seems finished.
      - Dylan16807 19d ago
        Sure, no opinion really being conveyed. But it didn't come from the person you were talking to, so editing on a sarcastic "great answer" doesn't really work. The person you were talking to just hadn't responded within the first hour. They still might.
        DANmode 18d ago
        If “community outreach” or “marketing” happens to reappear on their agent’s to-do list, then maybe!
Eridrus 19d ago
On one hand, yes, it doesn't make sense to give out subsidized tokens forever. On the other hand, subscriptions create lock-in in a way that API pricing doesn't. I think a more likely end is that subscription value decreases over time because API pricing gets more reasonable, but subscriptions stay because they are a good way of getting money out of people consistently.
- landl0rd 19d ago
  Right, subscriptions are not only cheaper because they "create lock-in". They also let you do things like forecast demand and plan your capacity for it, borrow against it sometimes if you need to, and keep somewhat less around because your cashflows are predictable. It is also valuable because it keeps customers around but that's by no means the only reason recurring revenue gets a higher multiple. This is why "subsidized tokens" is possibly a misnomer. Money at lower variance is worth more than the same money at higher variance. Not "subsidy" so much as reducing risk and passing some of that to a consumer.
  - Eridrus 9d ago
    You just described the benefits of customers being locked in?