4 ms·

Secrets should go in a vault and retrieved with the help of a workload identity.

akoboldfrying 19d ago
How does the running app instance get the workload identity? The ways I can think of are (1) it's baked into the source code (worst possible security), (2) it's provided on the command line (also bad since command lines are visible to ps unless you do various OS-specific hijinks), (3) it's provided in an environment variable (no better than before), or (4) it's read from some well-known path (it seems to me that anything that could read a process's env vars could also read the contents of this file, so how is this more secure?)
- minitech 19d ago
  > (3) it's provided in an environment variable (no better than before) Even if you take no measures beyond simply using a token that can be exchanged for secrets (and you can – invalidate it, authenticate it, etc.), you’re already doing better than before, because the token isn’t useful to an attacker without access to the secret store, whereas something like a JWT secret key is very useful.
  - akoboldfrying 19d ago
    Thanks, I can see how invalidating the token after first use, or after a short time period, reduces the exploit possibilities. (If all upstream service providers that you depend on were perfect, this could be arranged separately for each JWT that you need, but they aren't perfect.) > authenticate it > the token isn’t useful to an attacker without access to the secret store If it's not a bearer token (that is, if you need to provide some additional credentials to authenticate it to the secret store) then any such additional authentication would need to be passed in somehow. Are you maybe assuming that in the environment where the app runs, some subsystem will have already installed a credential for some suitable IAM security principal? Because in that case, I certainly agree that it's better to anchor everything off that. That covers many cases (including every cloud) but not, e.g., rented plain VPSes or a couple of servers in your own basement.

How does the running app instance get the workload identity? The ways I can think of are (1) it's baked into the source code (worst possible security), (2) it's provided on the command line (also bad since command lines are visible to ps unless you do various OS-specific hijinks), (3) it's provided in an environment variable (no better than before), or (4) it's read from some well-known path (it seems to me that anything that could read a process's env vars could also read the contents of this file, so how is this more secure?)

minitech 19d ago
> (3) it's provided in an environment variable (no better than before) Even if you take no measures beyond simply using a token that can be exchanged for secrets (and you can – invalidate it, authenticate it, etc.), you’re already doing better than before, because the token isn’t useful to an attacker without access to the secret store, whereas something like a JWT secret key is very useful.
- akoboldfrying 19d ago
  Thanks, I can see how invalidating the token after first use, or after a short time period, reduces the exploit possibilities. (If all upstream service providers that you depend on were perfect, this could be arranged separately for each JWT that you need, but they aren't perfect.) > authenticate it > the token isn’t useful to an attacker without access to the secret store If it's not a bearer token (that is, if you need to provide some additional credentials to authenticate it to the secret store) then any such additional authentication would need to be passed in somehow. Are you maybe assuming that in the environment where the app runs, some subsystem will have already installed a credential for some suitable IAM security principal? Because in that case, I certainly agree that it's better to anchor everything off that. That covers many cases (including every cloud) but not, e.g., rented plain VPSes or a couple of servers in your own basement.