5 ms·

Seems like important context behind the push for things like Web Environment Integrity (similar in concept to "trusted computing" if you were around for that co

by ashleyn 20d ago

Seems like important context behind the push for things like Web Environment Integrity (similar in concept to "trusted computing" if you were around for that controversy in the early 2000s): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Environment_Integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Environment_Integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing If your service providers are funded by ads, and ads begin demanding "verified clicks", your service providers are greatly incentivised to begin pushing for locking down your ability to run what you want on your own hardware. Through manipulation of web standards, or through lobbying.

CodesInChaos 20d ago
BTW Google had another go at forcing Treacherous Computing on people. This time it's a reCAPTCHA successor, which requires the user to scan a QR code using a Google/Apple owned phone.
- WarmWash 20d ago
  People need to just take responsibility and pay for shit. Like if you don't want to be kicked around, you need to be the one kicking. People interpret business as hostility because they cannot conceive of the idea that they themselves should pay for a service.
  - jabroni_salad 20d ago
    I feel like it is actually payment pages where I see these kinds of bouncers the most, though. click fraud is inefficient, but payment fraud can actually ruin a business.
  - CodesInChaos 20d ago
    The currently mainstream payment solution hurt privacy even more than the current ad tracking. We'd need something like GNU Taler for that. I wonder what the world would look like if the Chaum E-Cash - Microsoft Windows cooperation had worked out.
  - nemomarx 20d ago
    When I do pay for services, they can just add ads anyway to get more money. Look at Netflix or Amazon prime for this, or even cable. How do I pay for something with a guarantee they'll leave the ad money on the table? I pay for Ars, I pay for YouTube, I pay for discord nitro at the highest tier. Notice that all of those services are still ad funded?
    - usui 20d ago
      The same principle applies: You would have to leave the service when it starts introducing such things. As a market-driving force in the real world, basically an impossible task for the collective. However, occasionally consumers do successfully band together to abandon a service due to some perceived slight.
    - WarmWash 20d ago
      I don't know about ars and discord, but netflix, prime, and yt all have ad-free and ad-subsidized options. There is also the degree to which people consider something ad free. A character using an iPhone in a show could be considered an ad to some, and not noticed to others.
  - akersten 20d ago
    > People interpret business as hostility because they cannot conceive of the idea that they themselves should pay for a service. If that's what the business really believed, they'd put up a paywall instead of literally giving away their content. Some businesses do believe that. Most of them realize it's more profitable to sell data about you instead. So screw 'em and screw this victim-blaming "well we wouldn't need all this invasive tech if it weren't for those pesky adblockers, you'll need a TPM to browse the internet because you didn't play along with my bad business model" nonsense. The internet existed before big adtech, and it will exist after. Long live free computing. > Like if you don't want to be kicked around, you need to be the one kicking. This is a punk stance but somehow the argument is "be punk and whip out the credit card?" My argument is "be punk and adblock."
  - sunaookami 20d ago
    >you need to be the one kicking ...by giving rent-seeking corporations more money? The internet was always "free". I've been using Adblockers since decades and will continue to do so.
    - WarmWash 20d ago
      The internet was never free, it was just people other than you carrying the cost. Those people are the ones who control the internet, not you.
      - sunaookami 20d ago
        Wrong :)
  - mrguyorama 20d ago
    There is nothing in US consumer rights law that prevents any of this being done to someone who pays. As such, companies do all this to consumers who pay.
  - soraminazuki 19d ago
    "It's people's fault that these tech billionaires are just scraping by!" I beg to differ.
- zarzavat 20d ago
  > This time it's a reCAPTCHA successor, which requires the user to scan a QR code using a Google/Apple owned phone. I can't wait for the future where I need a burner phone and a robotic arm just to browse the internet.

by ashleyn 20d ago

CodesInChaos 20d ago

BTW Google had another go at forcing Treacherous Computing on people. This time it's a reCAPTCHA successor, which requires the user to scan a QR code using a Google/Apple owned phone.

WarmWash 20d ago
People need to just take responsibility and pay for shit. Like if you don't want to be kicked around, you need to be the one kicking. People interpret business as hostility because they cannot conceive of the idea that they themselves should pay for a service.
- jabroni_salad 20d ago
  I feel like it is actually payment pages where I see these kinds of bouncers the most, though. click fraud is inefficient, but payment fraud can actually ruin a business.
- CodesInChaos 20d ago
  The currently mainstream payment solution hurt privacy even more than the current ad tracking. We'd need something like GNU Taler for that. I wonder what the world would look like if the Chaum E-Cash - Microsoft Windows cooperation had worked out.
- nemomarx 20d ago
  When I do pay for services, they can just add ads anyway to get more money. Look at Netflix or Amazon prime for this, or even cable. How do I pay for something with a guarantee they'll leave the ad money on the table? I pay for Ars, I pay for YouTube, I pay for discord nitro at the highest tier. Notice that all of those services are still ad funded?
  - usui 20d ago
    The same principle applies: You would have to leave the service when it starts introducing such things. As a market-driving force in the real world, basically an impossible task for the collective. However, occasionally consumers do successfully band together to abandon a service due to some perceived slight.
  - WarmWash 20d ago
    I don't know about ars and discord, but netflix, prime, and yt all have ad-free and ad-subsidized options. There is also the degree to which people consider something ad free. A character using an iPhone in a show could be considered an ad to some, and not noticed to others.
- akersten 20d ago
  > People interpret business as hostility because they cannot conceive of the idea that they themselves should pay for a service. If that's what the business really believed, they'd put up a paywall instead of literally giving away their content. Some businesses do believe that. Most of them realize it's more profitable to sell data about you instead. So screw 'em and screw this victim-blaming "well we wouldn't need all this invasive tech if it weren't for those pesky adblockers, you'll need a TPM to browse the internet because you didn't play along with my bad business model" nonsense. The internet existed before big adtech, and it will exist after. Long live free computing. > Like if you don't want to be kicked around, you need to be the one kicking. This is a punk stance but somehow the argument is "be punk and whip out the credit card?" My argument is "be punk and adblock."
- sunaookami 20d ago
  >you need to be the one kicking ...by giving rent-seeking corporations more money? The internet was always "free". I've been using Adblockers since decades and will continue to do so.
  - WarmWash 20d ago
    The internet was never free, it was just people other than you carrying the cost. Those people are the ones who control the internet, not you.
    - sunaookami 20d ago
      Wrong :)
- mrguyorama 20d ago
  There is nothing in US consumer rights law that prevents any of this being done to someone who pays. As such, companies do all this to consumers who pay.
- soraminazuki 19d ago
  "It's people's fault that these tech billionaires are just scraping by!" I beg to differ.
zarzavat 20d ago
> This time it's a reCAPTCHA successor, which requires the user to scan a QR code using a Google/Apple owned phone. I can't wait for the future where I need a burner phone and a robotic arm just to browse the internet.