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I wish everyone thought like this. Unfortunately the average user demands an app and thinks they have nothing to hide.

pbhjpbhj 19d ago
I think the average user doesn't know the app is there to circumvent tracking protections in browsers and doesn't realise the app is most likely just a web page in a wrapper. I was at a car park in UK and you didn't have to install an app, just scan the QR to go to the web page, simple payment. Sadly they then messed it all up by not offering payment through normal services.
- GJim 19d ago
  > just scan the QR Lord no! Scanning a random QR code.... where is the worst it will take you? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrpknqpgzlo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrpknqpgzlo
  - ryandrake 19d ago
    Yea a QR code is only marginally better than requiring an app. I shouldn't need a goddamn smartphone to conduct business and live in society!
  - gtufano 19d ago
    The actual reality is that it's impossible to have people go to a web site from a physical ad/offer/thing without using a QR (or paying Google). Google (and friends) managed to hide the URL almost totally, people don't even know that you can go somewhere without searching on google. So the options are: paying google to have your name point to you (an expensive choice depending on the actual name) or use a QR. Weirdly enough people uses QRs this way. I think the restaurants/bars menus after the pandemic only digital via QR opened this way (again, it was trendy also many years ago).
    - jknoepfler 19d ago
      Did domain names stop functioning all of the sudden? Going to somedipshitsbar.com/menu is about as complicated as entering a wifi password at a coffee shop.
      - goosejuice 19d ago
        Consumers don't care. QR is easier for them and owners get analytics plus built in table identified ordering. I brought up the attack vector to a table full of developers back when this was taking off, just shrugs.
        vel0city 19d ago
        > owners get analytics They'll get analytics from digital menus regardless of if a QR code is scanned or not. The QR code isn't really making a difference here, other than maybe adding in a specific table ID. > built in table identified ordering...attack vector Oh no, they're going to know table 36 ordered the appetizer sampler and a few beers. The horror. They couldn't have possibly known that before. They're going to get a lot more verifiable information about me when they run my payment card than what they'll glean from a fresh browser tab.
        goosejuice 19d ago
        The analytics are very different when you have locality built in. You know exactly how many times your menu was scanned in house.. how long they spent on the page etc has much more meaning. An open website mixes traffic. I'm not promoting QR codes here. When I can avoid them I do. It's just that the incentives for owners and consumers are better with them and that's the challenge. > Oh no, they're going to know table 36 ordered the appetizer sampler and a few beers. The horror. They couldn't have possibly known that before I have no idea what you're on about here. I'm clearly referring to quishing to collect payment info. It's very easy to copy a website and plop a QR code onto a picnic table over the old one.
        19d ago
graemep 19d ago
The average user does not demand an app. If they did they would not need to be pushed to apps by "it works better on the app" or offered discounts for using the app.
- goosejuice 19d ago
  Unfortunately consumer preference surveys are all over the place. Most I've seen show they do prefer an app but data isn't exactly open. If you have this data feel free to share. I'm sure every industry is different. For my current work, our users overwhelmingly want a native app. The majority of traffic is mobile and iOS. Everytime I tell someone about what I do they open up the app store and I have to tell them it's not on there and they ask why. Anyway, apps have higher monetary conversion. The desire to push users to the app needs no other reason.
reaperducer 19d ago
the average user demands an app No, the average middle manager demands an app. The average user has gotten over the novelty of having seven million apps on their phone.
- goosejuice 19d ago
  Do you run a consumer to web app? What do your users say? What's the predominant device and OS?
  - reaperducer 19d ago
    I do. With over 200,000 paying users. The Customer Service department (we're a real business, so we have one of those) forwards all email, social media, and phone contacts about it to me. Number of middle managers who have brought up having an app since 2019: Around five. Number of actual users who asked for an app since 2019: One. Maybe two. Your turn.
    - ericjmorey 19d ago
      If you offered an app, do you think new customers would choose the app over a browser interface? Do you think most existing users would switch? Do you think there are many people who don't use your service because there's no app?
      - reaperducer 19d ago
        No. No. No, because that's not how our industry works.
    - goosejuice 19d ago
      > Number of actual users who asked for an app since 2019: One. Maybe two Have you ever asked them?
      - reaperducer 19d ago
Henchman21 19d ago
Please provide your proof of this statement
- goosejuice 19d ago
  Data from your own users is the most useful, but here's some published data. There's plenty more to be found and of course methodology, quality and intention varies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK616185 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK616185 https://www.aba.com/news-research/analysis-guides/preferred-banking-methods https://www.aba.com/news-research/analysis-guides/preferred-... https://www.iab.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-IAB-Global-Mobile-Experience-Study_Infographic.pdf https://www.iab.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-IAB-Glob...
  - Henchman21 18d ago
    Very interesting links thank you

I think the average user doesn't know the app is there to circumvent tracking protections in browsers and doesn't realise the app is most likely just a web page in a wrapper. I was at a car park in UK and you didn't have to install an app, just scan the QR to go to the web page, simple payment. Sadly they then messed it all up by not offering payment through normal services.

GJim 19d ago
> just scan the QR Lord no! Scanning a random QR code.... where is the worst it will take you? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrpknqpgzlo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crrpknqpgzlo
- ryandrake 19d ago
  Yea a QR code is only marginally better than requiring an app. I shouldn't need a goddamn smartphone to conduct business and live in society!
- gtufano 19d ago
  The actual reality is that it's impossible to have people go to a web site from a physical ad/offer/thing without using a QR (or paying Google). Google (and friends) managed to hide the URL almost totally, people don't even know that you can go somewhere without searching on google. So the options are: paying google to have your name point to you (an expensive choice depending on the actual name) or use a QR. Weirdly enough people uses QRs this way. I think the restaurants/bars menus after the pandemic only digital via QR opened this way (again, it was trendy also many years ago).
  - jknoepfler 19d ago
    Did domain names stop functioning all of the sudden? Going to somedipshitsbar.com/menu is about as complicated as entering a wifi password at a coffee shop.
    - goosejuice 19d ago
      Consumers don't care. QR is easier for them and owners get analytics plus built in table identified ordering. I brought up the attack vector to a table full of developers back when this was taking off, just shrugs.
      - vel0city 19d ago
        > owners get analytics They'll get analytics from digital menus regardless of if a QR code is scanned or not. The QR code isn't really making a difference here, other than maybe adding in a specific table ID. > built in table identified ordering...attack vector Oh no, they're going to know table 36 ordered the appetizer sampler and a few beers. The horror. They couldn't have possibly known that before. They're going to get a lot more verifiable information about me when they run my payment card than what they'll glean from a fresh browser tab.
        goosejuice 19d ago
        The analytics are very different when you have locality built in. You know exactly how many times your menu was scanned in house.. how long they spent on the page etc has much more meaning. An open website mixes traffic. I'm not promoting QR codes here. When I can avoid them I do. It's just that the incentives for owners and consumers are better with them and that's the challenge. > Oh no, they're going to know table 36 ordered the appetizer sampler and a few beers. The horror. They couldn't have possibly known that before I have no idea what you're on about here. I'm clearly referring to quishing to collect payment info. It's very easy to copy a website and plop a QR code onto a picnic table over the old one.
        19d ago

graemep 19d ago

The average user does not demand an app. If they did they would not need to be pushed to apps by "it works better on the app" or offered discounts for using the app.

goosejuice 19d ago
Unfortunately consumer preference surveys are all over the place. Most I've seen show they do prefer an app but data isn't exactly open. If you have this data feel free to share. I'm sure every industry is different. For my current work, our users overwhelmingly want a native app. The majority of traffic is mobile and iOS. Everytime I tell someone about what I do they open up the app store and I have to tell them it's not on there and they ask why. Anyway, apps have higher monetary conversion. The desire to push users to the app needs no other reason.

reaperducer 19d ago

the average user demands an app No, the average middle manager demands an app. The average user has gotten over the novelty of having seven million apps on their phone.

goosejuice 19d ago
Do you run a consumer to web app? What do your users say? What's the predominant device and OS?
- reaperducer 19d ago
  I do. With over 200,000 paying users. The Customer Service department (we're a real business, so we have one of those) forwards all email, social media, and phone contacts about it to me. Number of middle managers who have brought up having an app since 2019: Around five. Number of actual users who asked for an app since 2019: One. Maybe two. Your turn.
  - ericjmorey 19d ago
    If you offered an app, do you think new customers would choose the app over a browser interface? Do you think most existing users would switch? Do you think there are many people who don't use your service because there's no app?
    - reaperducer 19d ago
      No. No. No, because that's not how our industry works.
  - goosejuice 19d ago
    > Number of actual users who asked for an app since 2019: One. Maybe two Have you ever asked them?
    - reaperducer 19d ago

Henchman21 19d ago

Please provide your proof of this statement

goosejuice 19d ago
Data from your own users is the most useful, but here's some published data. There's plenty more to be found and of course methodology, quality and intention varies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK616185 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK616185 https://www.aba.com/news-research/analysis-guides/preferred-banking-methods https://www.aba.com/news-research/analysis-guides/preferred-... https://www.iab.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-IAB-Global-Mobile-Experience-Study_Infographic.pdf https://www.iab.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-IAB-Glob...
- Henchman21 18d ago
  Very interesting links thank you