6 ms·

The Latin seems quite wrong... e.g. "segmentum pacificus" should actually be "segmentum pacificum" [1] to keep genders correct. Was it the same in the books (wh

by ale42 19d ago

The Latin seems quite wrong... e.g. "segmentum pacificus" should actually be "segmentum pacificum" [1] to keep genders correct. Was it the same in the books (which I don't know)? [1] see Latin dictionary: https://www.online-latin-dictionary.com/latin-dictionary-flexion.php?parola=segmentum https://www.online-latin-dictionary.com/latin-dictionary-fle... and https://www.online-latin-dictionary.com/latin-dictionary-flexion.php?parola=pacificus https://www.online-latin-dictionary.com/latin-dictionary-fle...

nope1000 19d ago
Those words are supposed to be "high gothic" (https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/High_Gothic https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/High_Gothic) which is definitly inspired by latin but not the same.
- vermilingua 19d ago
  Fandom (40k's fandom seems less-terrible than most tbf) needs to die a faster death. Lexicanum is a much better resource. https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Gothic https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Gothic
  - nope1000 19d ago
    Good point, I just used the first hit on kagi to source the claim but you are right.
  - MichaelDickens 19d ago
    What's wrong with Fandom?
    - co_ent 19d ago
      They have the SEO juice to push out and replace dedicated wikis as the top result, even when there are long-standing dedicated wikis for the game/universe. Fandom wikis then typically have maybe half of the information from the dedicated wiki PLUS a bunch of intrusive ads. There's no instance that I know of where a Fandom wiki popping up for a community was a positive unless they simply didn't have one to start with.
      - OoooooooO 18d ago
        You also can't really get the info out if the community decides to change wikis.
        CodesInChaos 18d ago
        Are the obstacles technical or legal? I vaguely recall most wikis on wikia being CC-BY-SA, but it's been a while.
- ajross 19d ago
  Which is to say, the original authors didn't care and were just writing latinesque gibberish that sounded cool. One of the critically important things to remember about 40k lore is that the game was originally a joke. Their "real" game was Warhammer (the game to be later called "Warhammer Fantasy"). Originally it was just "Let's put space opera tropes onto a game board and have them fight D&D monsters". Then they shoe-horned the chaos stuff in, then had a (presumably drunken) exercise in lore writing where they "invented" "Grimdark" by essentially turning the Despair knob up to 11. And then it turned out to be popular, and it was time to start trying to write real stories on top of the mess. And... people loved it. Including a lot of people for whom the comically ridiculous Grimdark stuff turned into a kind of authoritarian wish fulfillment, which wasn't great. But you have to remember it was all a joke to begin with.
  - throaway198521 19d ago
    It was more than just a joke. It was a satire on England and 1980's society. The "Imperium," which is led by the possibly-dead body of a entombed demi-god, sustains its control over the galaxy with a mix of intense faith, authoritarianism, and a massive space navy with marine shock troops. That's England! The Imperium is the British Empire. The dead-God Emperor is Jesus and the Imperial Cult is the COE. The Imperial Navy is the British Navy and the Space Marines (who in the older versions were just common criminals, not super-soldiers), are the British Naval Marines. One of the old slurs against Christians was that they followed a "corpse-god." They say the same thing in 40K. Plus, all the rampant materialism, corruption, stratification, militarism, promoted and encouraged by the Imperium. All straight out of 1980's society.
    - ajross 19d ago
      > It was more than just a joke. It was a satire on England and 1980's society. Well... while I buy that to some extent, I think the point is oversold. While there are absolutely satirical aspects to the early game[1], they're mostly limited to puns. What (original) 40k is absolutely not is subtle highbrow comedy. It's a bunch of drunk nerds guffawing about whatever they thought was funny in the moment. [1] Which again, didn't actually include a lot of the later lore. Like, the emperor in the 1e rules was entombed but strongly implied to be actively leading the empire. Likewise the original conception seems a lot closer to dystopian sci fi than "1980's society" to me.
- ale42 16d ago
  Thanks, I didn't think about the possibility it might have been something else as Latin...

by ale42 19d ago

nope1000 19d ago

Those words are supposed to be "high gothic" (https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/High_Gothic https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/High_Gothic) which is definitly inspired by latin but not the same.

vermilingua 19d ago
Fandom (40k's fandom seems less-terrible than most tbf) needs to die a faster death. Lexicanum is a much better resource. https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Gothic https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Gothic
- nope1000 19d ago
  Good point, I just used the first hit on kagi to source the claim but you are right.
- MichaelDickens 19d ago
  What's wrong with Fandom?
  - co_ent 19d ago
    They have the SEO juice to push out and replace dedicated wikis as the top result, even when there are long-standing dedicated wikis for the game/universe. Fandom wikis then typically have maybe half of the information from the dedicated wiki PLUS a bunch of intrusive ads. There's no instance that I know of where a Fandom wiki popping up for a community was a positive unless they simply didn't have one to start with.
    - OoooooooO 18d ago
      You also can't really get the info out if the community decides to change wikis.
      - CodesInChaos 18d ago
        Are the obstacles technical or legal? I vaguely recall most wikis on wikia being CC-BY-SA, but it's been a while.
ajross 19d ago
Which is to say, the original authors didn't care and were just writing latinesque gibberish that sounded cool. One of the critically important things to remember about 40k lore is that the game was originally a joke. Their "real" game was Warhammer (the game to be later called "Warhammer Fantasy"). Originally it was just "Let's put space opera tropes onto a game board and have them fight D&D monsters". Then they shoe-horned the chaos stuff in, then had a (presumably drunken) exercise in lore writing where they "invented" "Grimdark" by essentially turning the Despair knob up to 11. And then it turned out to be popular, and it was time to start trying to write real stories on top of the mess. And... people loved it. Including a lot of people for whom the comically ridiculous Grimdark stuff turned into a kind of authoritarian wish fulfillment, which wasn't great. But you have to remember it was all a joke to begin with.
- throaway198521 19d ago
  It was more than just a joke. It was a satire on England and 1980's society. The "Imperium," which is led by the possibly-dead body of a entombed demi-god, sustains its control over the galaxy with a mix of intense faith, authoritarianism, and a massive space navy with marine shock troops. That's England! The Imperium is the British Empire. The dead-God Emperor is Jesus and the Imperial Cult is the COE. The Imperial Navy is the British Navy and the Space Marines (who in the older versions were just common criminals, not super-soldiers), are the British Naval Marines. One of the old slurs against Christians was that they followed a "corpse-god." They say the same thing in 40K. Plus, all the rampant materialism, corruption, stratification, militarism, promoted and encouraged by the Imperium. All straight out of 1980's society.
  - ajross 19d ago
    > It was more than just a joke. It was a satire on England and 1980's society. Well... while I buy that to some extent, I think the point is oversold. While there are absolutely satirical aspects to the early game[1], they're mostly limited to puns. What (original) 40k is absolutely not is subtle highbrow comedy. It's a bunch of drunk nerds guffawing about whatever they thought was funny in the moment. [1] Which again, didn't actually include a lot of the later lore. Like, the emperor in the 1e rules was entombed but strongly implied to be actively leading the empire. Likewise the original conception seems a lot closer to dystopian sci fi than "1980's society" to me.
ale42 16d ago
Thanks, I didn't think about the possibility it might have been something else as Latin...