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> because they don’t want to give their bank details What's the problem with sharing your bank details? I don't consider those a secret at all. And if they wer

by hvb2 20d ago

> because they don’t want to give their bank details What's the problem with sharing your bank details? I don't consider those a secret at all. And if they were, chances are they've been compromised somewhere anyway.

AnthonyMouse 20d ago
The banking system in some countries (including the US) does regard that information as secret. This is, of course, fully insane and the only reason it persists is that the regulatory institutions in those countries are too intransigent to switch from their >100 year old technology to some merely 50 year old technology like public key cryptography. Or even backward-compatible changes like requiring banks to give customers virtual account numbers that they can give to different merchants/people and turn on and off.
- hvb2 19d ago
  That's fine, but if I give you my IBAN and name on the account, you can only send money to me... Well and commit actual fraud/identity they by forging my signature maybe... But we don't see that happen on a large scale because it just isn't feasible/worth it. We would see it otherwise as I'm sure there are plenty of datasets with those pieces of info to be bought..
- dgellow 19d ago
  It’s not considered a secret, it’s just something people don’t feel comfortable entering in forms online. That feels a bit too personal, and is simple to enter wrong. A middleman makes that process a non issue. It’s also nice to be able to change banks or have multiple accounts without having to care about online payments details, you just pick in the middleman setting the one you want to use. For example I had an account frozen for an incorrect inkasso (that was eventually retracted), I was glad I could just ask a friend to send me something to PayPal as a way to do online payments. The abstraction of the middleman makes sense to me for some types of payments, I find bank accounts a bit too low level sometimes.
  - AnthonyMouse 15d ago
    > It’s not considered a secret, it’s just something people don’t feel comfortable entering in forms online. If you have someone's US bank routing information then you can forge checks against their account. This is an unforced error downstream of still using a system devised in the early years of the 20th century. > That feels a bit too personal, and is simple to enter wrong. It feels personal because they're trying to pretend it isn't a secret even though it structurally is one. Entering it wrong seems like a fake problem. You copy and paste it from your bank's website. > It’s also nice to be able to change banks or have multiple accounts without having to care about online payments details A reasonable payments system does the same thing without a middle man taking a vig. For example, Zelle uses email addresses or phone numbers. If you change banks then you register your email address or phone number with the new bank and from then the money goes there instead. There is no reason a system couldn't work the same way for recurring payments. > For example I had an account frozen for an incorrect inkasso (that was eventually retracted), I was glad I could just ask a friend to send me something to PayPal as a way to do online payments. This is just a desire for it to be easy to open a new account at a different bank and start using that. Nobody needs these middle men and the only reason they exist is that the incumbents and regulatory apparatus make the default system unnecessarily difficult.

by hvb2 20d ago

AnthonyMouse 20d ago

The banking system in some countries (including the US) does regard that information as secret. This is, of course, fully insane and the only reason it persists is that the regulatory institutions in those countries are too intransigent to switch from their >100 year old technology to some merely 50 year old technology like public key cryptography. Or even backward-compatible changes like requiring banks to give customers virtual account numbers that they can give to different merchants/people and turn on and off.

hvb2 19d ago
That's fine, but if I give you my IBAN and name on the account, you can only send money to me... Well and commit actual fraud/identity they by forging my signature maybe... But we don't see that happen on a large scale because it just isn't feasible/worth it. We would see it otherwise as I'm sure there are plenty of datasets with those pieces of info to be bought..
dgellow 19d ago
It’s not considered a secret, it’s just something people don’t feel comfortable entering in forms online. That feels a bit too personal, and is simple to enter wrong. A middleman makes that process a non issue. It’s also nice to be able to change banks or have multiple accounts without having to care about online payments details, you just pick in the middleman setting the one you want to use. For example I had an account frozen for an incorrect inkasso (that was eventually retracted), I was glad I could just ask a friend to send me something to PayPal as a way to do online payments. The abstraction of the middleman makes sense to me for some types of payments, I find bank accounts a bit too low level sometimes.
- AnthonyMouse 15d ago
  > It’s not considered a secret, it’s just something people don’t feel comfortable entering in forms online. If you have someone's US bank routing information then you can forge checks against their account. This is an unforced error downstream of still using a system devised in the early years of the 20th century. > That feels a bit too personal, and is simple to enter wrong. It feels personal because they're trying to pretend it isn't a secret even though it structurally is one. Entering it wrong seems like a fake problem. You copy and paste it from your bank's website. > It’s also nice to be able to change banks or have multiple accounts without having to care about online payments details A reasonable payments system does the same thing without a middle man taking a vig. For example, Zelle uses email addresses or phone numbers. If you change banks then you register your email address or phone number with the new bank and from then the money goes there instead. There is no reason a system couldn't work the same way for recurring payments. > For example I had an account frozen for an incorrect inkasso (that was eventually retracted), I was glad I could just ask a friend to send me something to PayPal as a way to do online payments. This is just a desire for it to be easy to open a new account at a different bank and start using that. Nobody needs these middle men and the only reason they exist is that the incumbents and regulatory apparatus make the default system unnecessarily difficult.