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Hence the concept of trade partnerships. No country makes everything, and yes, there's lots of competition. Tarifs have existed since forever. Countries use th

Hence the concept of trade partnerships. No country makes everything, and yes, there's lots of competition. Tarifs have existed since forever. Countries use them to protect local industries. But they've always been stable, and industry focused. Food production for example is worth protecting and Canada has tarifs on imported Dairy. Partnerships exist to protect local industries, promote exports, and give citizens access to cheap goods. It's a complex balance set up over time with lots of nuance and negotiating. Yes, sometimes tarifs kill a local industry as well. Lack of international competition let's local industry stagnate until it is dead. US ship building is a good example of this, and US Auto makers are trending in this direction. (Banning Chinese EVs is not bolstering the US EV production, it is causing the US manufacturers to ignore that market, and I don't think that ends well.) Tarifs are a powerful tool when wielded well. Alas right now the US in unstable. Local industries can't rely on tarifs existing next week, never mind 5 years from now. I'm not investing in a local hockey stick factory because the tarif could disappear at any time. In my country we get cheap solar panels from China. Frankly, let them sell below-cost if they like. (Hint, they're not below cost). We don't make them here, so cheap energy is good for all. The US negativity to Chinese goods seems to be around dumping (which happens, but not much), around quality (frankly much of it is very good) or around human rights. (Cause, you know, we bombed Iran to promote human rights...) I don't think Americans will suddenly love China. But the rest of the world is getting very cosy very quickly.

Paradigma11 20d ago
But China wants to make everything, that is the problem. It might also be the case that we misunderstand the state of the Chinese economy quite a bit. I heard an argument by an economist that the situation is mainly explained by the real estate crash. That was a ginormous event but the government basically just denied any big consequences. That did kill the credit market for a long time. Now Chinese consumer have little money to spend and China is forced to export their products, no matter the price to keep things going.
- hvb2 19d ago
  > But China wants to make everything As long as a typical Chinese person is happy with a standard of living that is far below what an American expects, China will be way cheaper on labor. For most products, labor is a significant cost. For a lot of consumers, price is more important then where it's made. Maybe not what they say they think is important but when they actually decide. As a result, China will make almost everything, along with the rest of south east Asia. Basically, the lower price for products comes at the cost of exporting your own jobs. One is easy to reason about when making a purchase decision, the other is indirect and abstract. Which is why the former wins
  - Paradigma11 19d ago
    But in what goods/currency/assets are other nations paying China for those goods if China does not want/need to import anything? Explain how this is supposed to work on any medium time frame.
    - hvb2 17d ago
      Well so far I believe they've been buying us government bonds for example? Also, haven't they been buying all kinds of stuff in Africa etcetera? Money doesn't have to flow from A to B and back to A. It might very well pass many more hops to complete the circle

Paradigma11 20d ago

But China wants to make everything, that is the problem. It might also be the case that we misunderstand the state of the Chinese economy quite a bit. I heard an argument by an economist that the situation is mainly explained by the real estate crash. That was a ginormous event but the government basically just denied any big consequences. That did kill the credit market for a long time. Now Chinese consumer have little money to spend and China is forced to export their products, no matter the price to keep things going.

hvb2 19d ago
> But China wants to make everything As long as a typical Chinese person is happy with a standard of living that is far below what an American expects, China will be way cheaper on labor. For most products, labor is a significant cost. For a lot of consumers, price is more important then where it's made. Maybe not what they say they think is important but when they actually decide. As a result, China will make almost everything, along with the rest of south east Asia. Basically, the lower price for products comes at the cost of exporting your own jobs. One is easy to reason about when making a purchase decision, the other is indirect and abstract. Which is why the former wins
- Paradigma11 19d ago
  But in what goods/currency/assets are other nations paying China for those goods if China does not want/need to import anything? Explain how this is supposed to work on any medium time frame.
  - hvb2 17d ago
    Well so far I believe they've been buying us government bonds for example? Also, haven't they been buying all kinds of stuff in Africa etcetera? Money doesn't have to flow from A to B and back to A. It might very well pass many more hops to complete the circle