14 ms·

Maybe it was advanced for the time being created, to me it's just any other RFID card that is issued everywhere else in the world in the matter of read speed, f

Maybe it was advanced for the time being created, to me it's just any other RFID card that is issued everywhere else in the world in the matter of read speed, from every public transit card that I find in every EU country I've visited (maybe for a US citizen not used to public transit it seems something special, I don't know), to skipasses, to even your gym card. Having the option to also pay with credit card would be much more convenient to tourists, when I visited Japan I've had difficulties finding the right place to get a SUICA card (being that my Android phone didn't have Felica chip, as most phones sold outside Japan), and on top of that you almost everywhere need to charge it with only cash. And you can charge it only by 500 or 1000 yen at the time (depending on the machine), and of course tickets always have not round prices like 110 yen. And you have 500 yen of deposit for a card that probably costs to them 10 yen to manufacturer, unless you get the red SUICA card that you can get only in some special machines at the airport but with that you don't get back the unused credit when you leave (you can spend it at vending machine tough). So the speed saving of a couple of ms of not having to pay by tapping your normal credit card is completely vanished by wasting time to charge that card. BTW even if they don't want to put credit card POS on every station (I get it, it's expensive and they need to pay fees if someone uses a card, compared to cash) they could make a system that uses regular NFC (would be 100ms slower, who cares) at least for tourists so they can use it with a regular NFC card in their phone wallet that they can charge with an app without requiring a technology that only works in phone sold in Japan?

ruggeri 15d ago
I think maybe no one has noted that as of 2026-03-25, Tokyo Metro now accepts open-loop contactless EMV tap to ride. I believe the result is similar to how in London you can use either Oyster or a CC (or OMNY or CC in New York City). But I haven't visited Japan since this development. Apparently, Osaka has run open-loop contactless EMV since 2024-10-29 - I didn't know that when I was there! Of course, I still think you will want an IC if you travel outside Tokyo... IC is also very useful for payments (especially vending machines), though at shops/restaurants I normally have had little trouble using CC if IC is also accepted. (My thanks to another commenter who finally taught me how those Coke ON machines work!) Others have noted that in Japan, where transit utilization is so high, 100ms does seem to count in terms of efficiently moving people through fare gates. Maybe I'm just a yokel but Tokyo Station at rush hour was pretty impressive to me. EMV contactless payments are notably slower where they are used elsewhere. I think that is one reason why some stations (Ginza) are experimenting with dedicated fare gates for EMV (and QR). In London, people have noticed the speed difference between Oyster and EMV contactless. I believe the difference is that EMV was not designed from the ground up for fare gates. Source: https://japantoday.com/category/features/travel/tokyo-subway-installing-new-ticket-gates-that-don%E2%80%99t-accept-payment-through-suica-or-other-ic-cards https://japantoday.com/category/features/travel/tokyo-subway... I do think it is fair to note that FeliCa seems to attract praise that Calypso does not, despite Calypso doing similar transaction times. Calypso underlies Paris's Navigo cards, as well as Milan's ATM cards (haven't used that system yet)... As a tourist, I always am a bit charmed by learning the ins-and-outs of how local systems work, but maybe that is just my dorkiness. Most transit systems have some hiccups, especially for travelers. Your criticisms of FeliCa/IC/SUICA are fair, but maybe one can view the system more charitably with context. In Paris, you could only use Navigo in your Apple wallet starting 2024-05-XX. A physical Navigo Easy cost 2 EUR (not refundable). If you wanted to buy weekly or monthly passes as a tourist, I believe you were expected to purchase a Navigo Découverte from a station agent and provide them with a pre-printed headshot! Card cost: 5 EUR. I just bought paper tickets in Paris (I haven't been there since carnets stopped being sold 2023). My point is that this kind of stuff has historically been normal for travelers to navigate, whether in Europe or East Asia. I agree that open-loop contactless EMV payment has begun to make transit more frictionless to the traveler, and the patience for local quirks/frictions is dropping. But contactless EMV is still rolling out across the world (not in the Paris Métro yet). For fun you can look up all the cards and apps in Copenhagen (DOT Tickets, Rejsekort, Rejsebillet, Basiskort...). I don't think you can just tap your CC there yet. And, as noted, Japanese metros are introducing open-loop contactless EMV. Of your complaints about physical IC cards, I think that cash top-up is maybe the biggest bother. It would be nice to load value with a debit card. In truth, I never dealt with that because I have an iPhone and a digital IC card. Maybe it would have really bothered me if I couldn't top-up inside Apple Wallet. But in fairness, I remember ~10yrs ago Japan being a lot more cash based at shops and restaurants. You kind of needed to have cash. And one of the things that is very easy in Japan is withdrawing cash at ATMs. But that seems to have changed a lot in 10yrs, and maybe we just have more of an expectation of things being more digital and frictionless... Just the two cents (yen?) of this unworldly US citizen not experienced in public transit.
makeitdouble 20d ago
There is a perhaps a trend of local payment means being less accessible to tourists. I haven't experienced it first hand but WeChat/Alipay are in the same boat as I understand, and PromptPay in Indonesia can be somewhat be used but needs preparation before making the trip. Now, if you're not a tourist passing by for 3 days, Suica has most of your gripes solved and is an incredibly useful general payment mean. I use the Felica version on my phone (so no card), charge it with 3 taps in the app from my credit card, could have it auto charge if I really wanted to and is my payment choice wherever QR codes or QuickPay won't cut it. BTW you can now use your credit card to ride JR trains.
- philipwhiuk 20d ago
  > There is a perhaps a trend of local payment means being less accessible to tourists. It's because you want to price differentiate tourists and local people. Tourists will pay more for travel than your electorate.
  - makeitdouble 19d ago
    Could be part of it. Another angle is payment processors longing for stronger KYC. Felica is bound to a phone with a carrier on a national network, which basically guarantees full traceability of the user. Same for WeChat. PromptPay also binds to a bank account, so again it can be tracked at a gov. level.
  - fendy3002 19d ago
    others have said KYC but the main reason is to keep the local currency flow domestically and to prevent money laundering.
blks 20d ago
Not sure about android, but first time I went to Japan I managed to install Suica app on my iPhone, that added Suica card to the wallet. So now I can pay with Suica and also top it up using apple pay. Only downside is that Suica app is all in Japanese, but there are guides online that explain what to press.
- blks 20d ago
  Some googling revealed that apparently all iphones starting from version 8 support nfc-f/felica.
- varun_ch 20d ago
  In Japan right now. I didn’t even have to install anything, just went to Apple Wallet, add card, selected Suica, and then could create and load up a card. Plus it gets set up as an express transit card so I can tap my locked phone to pay for transit or snacks (even when it’s dead). Super pleasant experience.
  - blks 20d ago
    Just checked my phone, and yea there is an option to do it via Wallet, even easier. I’ll show this to my colleagues if I go there again someday.
Marsymars 20d ago
> I've had difficulties finding the right place to get a SUICA card It's not that hard unless you fly into somewhere other than Narita/Haneda where Welcome Suica cards are readily available. They're not available to Japanese residents, their only purpose is to function for tourists, so they're made to be easy for tourists. > And you can charge it only by 500 or 1000 yen at the time (depending on the machine), and of course tickets always have not round prices like 110 yen. Whatever I have leftover I spend at Starbucks at the airport on my way out. They'll happily split your purchase up so you can drain your Suica card balance and pay the remainder on credit.
jen729w 20d ago
> would be 100ms slower, who cares It's almost like you didn't read the article.

ruggeri 15d ago

I think maybe no one has noted that as of 2026-03-25, Tokyo Metro now accepts open-loop contactless EMV tap to ride. I believe the result is similar to how in London you can use either Oyster or a CC (or OMNY or CC in New York City). But I haven't visited Japan since this development. Apparently, Osaka has run open-loop contactless EMV since 2024-10-29 - I didn't know that when I was there! Of course, I still think you will want an IC if you travel outside Tokyo... IC is also very useful for payments (especially vending machines), though at shops/restaurants I normally have had little trouble using CC if IC is also accepted. (My thanks to another commenter who finally taught me how those Coke ON machines work!) Others have noted that in Japan, where transit utilization is so high, 100ms does seem to count in terms of efficiently moving people through fare gates. Maybe I'm just a yokel but Tokyo Station at rush hour was pretty impressive to me. EMV contactless payments are notably slower where they are used elsewhere. I think that is one reason why some stations (Ginza) are experimenting with dedicated fare gates for EMV (and QR). In London, people have noticed the speed difference between Oyster and EMV contactless. I believe the difference is that EMV was not designed from the ground up for fare gates. Source: https://japantoday.com/category/features/travel/tokyo-subway-installing-new-ticket-gates-that-don%E2%80%99t-accept-payment-through-suica-or-other-ic-cards https://japantoday.com/category/features/travel/tokyo-subway... I do think it is fair to note that FeliCa seems to attract praise that Calypso does not, despite Calypso doing similar transaction times. Calypso underlies Paris's Navigo cards, as well as Milan's ATM cards (haven't used that system yet)... As a tourist, I always am a bit charmed by learning the ins-and-outs of how local systems work, but maybe that is just my dorkiness. Most transit systems have some hiccups, especially for travelers. Your criticisms of FeliCa/IC/SUICA are fair, but maybe one can view the system more charitably with context. In Paris, you could only use Navigo in your Apple wallet starting 2024-05-XX. A physical Navigo Easy cost 2 EUR (not refundable). If you wanted to buy weekly or monthly passes as a tourist, I believe you were expected to purchase a Navigo Découverte from a station agent and provide them with a pre-printed headshot! Card cost: 5 EUR. I just bought paper tickets in Paris (I haven't been there since carnets stopped being sold 2023). My point is that this kind of stuff has historically been normal for travelers to navigate, whether in Europe or East Asia. I agree that open-loop contactless EMV payment has begun to make transit more frictionless to the traveler, and the patience for local quirks/frictions is dropping. But contactless EMV is still rolling out across the world (not in the Paris Métro yet). For fun you can look up all the cards and apps in Copenhagen (DOT Tickets, Rejsekort, Rejsebillet, Basiskort...). I don't think you can just tap your CC there yet. And, as noted, Japanese metros are introducing open-loop contactless EMV. Of your complaints about physical IC cards, I think that cash top-up is maybe the biggest bother. It would be nice to load value with a debit card. In truth, I never dealt with that because I have an iPhone and a digital IC card. Maybe it would have really bothered me if I couldn't top-up inside Apple Wallet. But in fairness, I remember ~10yrs ago Japan being a lot more cash based at shops and restaurants. You kind of needed to have cash. And one of the things that is very easy in Japan is withdrawing cash at ATMs. But that seems to have changed a lot in 10yrs, and maybe we just have more of an expectation of things being more digital and frictionless... Just the two cents (yen?) of this unworldly US citizen not experienced in public transit.

makeitdouble 20d ago

There is a perhaps a trend of local payment means being less accessible to tourists. I haven't experienced it first hand but WeChat/Alipay are in the same boat as I understand, and PromptPay in Indonesia can be somewhat be used but needs preparation before making the trip. Now, if you're not a tourist passing by for 3 days, Suica has most of your gripes solved and is an incredibly useful general payment mean. I use the Felica version on my phone (so no card), charge it with 3 taps in the app from my credit card, could have it auto charge if I really wanted to and is my payment choice wherever QR codes or QuickPay won't cut it. BTW you can now use your credit card to ride JR trains.

philipwhiuk 20d ago
> There is a perhaps a trend of local payment means being less accessible to tourists. It's because you want to price differentiate tourists and local people. Tourists will pay more for travel than your electorate.
- makeitdouble 19d ago
  Could be part of it. Another angle is payment processors longing for stronger KYC. Felica is bound to a phone with a carrier on a national network, which basically guarantees full traceability of the user. Same for WeChat. PromptPay also binds to a bank account, so again it can be tracked at a gov. level.
- fendy3002 19d ago
  others have said KYC but the main reason is to keep the local currency flow domestically and to prevent money laundering.

blks 20d ago

Not sure about android, but first time I went to Japan I managed to install Suica app on my iPhone, that added Suica card to the wallet. So now I can pay with Suica and also top it up using apple pay. Only downside is that Suica app is all in Japanese, but there are guides online that explain what to press.

blks 20d ago
Some googling revealed that apparently all iphones starting from version 8 support nfc-f/felica.
varun_ch 20d ago
In Japan right now. I didn’t even have to install anything, just went to Apple Wallet, add card, selected Suica, and then could create and load up a card. Plus it gets set up as an express transit card so I can tap my locked phone to pay for transit or snacks (even when it’s dead). Super pleasant experience.
- blks 20d ago
  Just checked my phone, and yea there is an option to do it via Wallet, even easier. I’ll show this to my colleagues if I go there again someday.

Marsymars 20d ago

> I've had difficulties finding the right place to get a SUICA card It's not that hard unless you fly into somewhere other than Narita/Haneda where Welcome Suica cards are readily available. They're not available to Japanese residents, their only purpose is to function for tourists, so they're made to be easy for tourists. > And you can charge it only by 500 or 1000 yen at the time (depending on the machine), and of course tickets always have not round prices like 110 yen. Whatever I have leftover I spend at Starbucks at the airport on my way out. They'll happily split your purchase up so you can drain your Suica card balance and pay the remainder on credit.

jen729w 20d ago

> would be 100ms slower, who cares It's almost like you didn't read the article.