5 ms·

What do you mean "broken"? Autistic folks are not broken.

raducu 20d ago
Nobody said they were, but broken in terms of neurotypical circuitry, yes
djaro 20d ago
Autism is a disability. The function of the brain to normally process social cues is broken. In the same way someone who is blind has broken vision, someone in a wheelchair has broken legs, and someone with ADHD has broken executive function. This isnt a moral judgement, theres nothing wrong with being disabled, but it remaims a disability that many people struggle due to.
- hoppp 20d ago
  The disability exists when compared to neurotypicals but does not necessarily exist when compared to other autists. As a comparison, if you put a bonobo with chimps the bonobo will be severely disabled socially, but it won't be when compared to other bonobos. The fact that autists can communicate with each other does not fit typical models of disability. A blind person should be blind to another blind person.
- SubiculumCode 20d ago
  There is interesting evidence that autism-autism social interactions are fairly vibrant. Everything is a bit more complicated than simple answers, no matter which way you swing.
- forestrywat 20d ago
  You've agreed with what I said. Nothing here is counter to or in opposition to my point. The person has a disability. Part of the person may be broken, but the person isn't broken. I'm autistic. My sensory processing wiring is different and arguably broken. But I am not. I'm disabled. I can overcome the broken parts that result in my disability with support.
nick__m 20d ago
There a point on the spectrum where someone cannot function without supervised housing and another one where you have non verbal autistic folks. But I agree broken is not the right word for those poor folks because they were never functional to begin with!
- wredcoll 20d ago
  We need some word and "differently abled" is just silly. Being blind is a problem. It's not a moral judgment, you aren't less of a person, but you aren't going to be driving any time soon.
  - forestrywat 20d ago
    Disabled is the word. Not broken. Not differently abled. We have a perfectly functional word for this.
mapontosevenths 20d ago
Some autistic people have to wear helmets and spend all day rocking back and forth eating anything they find in the carpet. The are unable to care for themselves and depend fully on others. These people are not operating within the nominal range of human behavior that might be classified as "functional." Only 20-30% of adult Autistics can even hold a job. Not a 'good' job, mind you, ANY job.
- hoppp 20d ago
  90% of autistics are undiagnosed and work.
  - switchbak 20d ago
    Wouldn't that be "???"% of autistics are undiagnosed? Because ... they're undiagnosed?
    - hoppp 20d ago
      The 90% is mentioned very commonly. In Uk they made studies about this: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/up-to-90-of-middle-aged-and-older-autistic-adults-are-undiagnosed-in-the-uk-new-review-finds https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/up-to-90-of-middle-aged-and-older...
      - optionalsquid 20d ago
        That study suggests that 65% of autistic individuals are undiagnosed. The 90% is only for middle-aged and older. Skimming a couple (due to time constraints) of the sources mentioned in the study, one source [1] mention that "3 in 10 autistic people of working age are in employment", and the other [2] that "approximately 50% fail to achieve independence in their living status, employment, and close relationships" It doesn't seem to support the claim that "90% of autistics are undiagnosed and work". [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-buckland-review-of-autism-employment-report-and-recommendations/the-buckland-review-of-autism-employment-report-and-recommendations https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-buckland-revi... [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-020-04763-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-020-04763-2
rickydroll 20d ago
I live with a child who spends entire days with videos on his tablet. We can't take him anywhere because if the trip differs from what we told him (trip duration or locations), we have to abort the trip to prevent a meltdown. His inflexibility means he can't hold a job or go to school or training. He can't do household chores without prompting and handholding. He will never live alone or have anything resembling a functional life. We have to make plans for how he will live after his mother and father die. We have to make space for his meltdowns that seem to come out of nowhere. His mother nearly bankrupted herself paying for private school for kids on the spectrum. His parents sued the local school system because they didn't have any teachers who had any skill with autistic children. couldn't protect him from bullying and couldn't or wouldn't follow the IEP. (Note: this is one of those events that ruin retirement plans). The state claims to have resources for my partner and her child, but when they try to get help, the state says it didn't realize she would need that much help. Then there is the never-ending struggle to get appropriate psychiatric and psychological help for him, and if you think it's hard to find a psychiatrist for ordinary mental illnesses, finding someone who knows how to deal with kids on the spectrum is almost impossible. His disability has had a negative impact on my relationship with his mother. As she has to make room for her child's emotional outbursts, I make room for my partner's angst about having a child who will never function on his own. There is a big loss of day-to-day intimacy because you never know when you will have to put up an emotional barrier against his behavior. yea, in my eyes, that counts as broken
- ElijahLynn 20d ago
  Thank you for sharing your lived experience, it is meaningful. I suspect some who say they like autistic traits, mean "level 1" on the ASD. May I ask if this child is level 2 or level 3 ASD? I'm imagining it is quite a different reality with level 1 vs level 2/3. https://www.autismspeaks.org/levels-of-autism https://www.autismspeaks.org/levels-of-autism
  - iteria 20d ago
    My child is a level 1. It has cost me thousands and thousands of dollars to get her help because no one wants to give her resources because she's so high functioning. So high functioning! Yes my child who has random panic attacks and bolts in random directions. My kid who had a meltdown because I forgot to tell a friend that if she goes to one particular park, they have to get ice cream. My kid who is 7 and was suicidal from the social isolation that's starting up. And now that she's self-harming, now people want to give help! But not for the under lying issues. She's so high functioning (aka female and coping decently). She doesn't need pragmatic language help or social help or any of that stuff. Her spiraling is just purely chemical imbalance. Here's some pills. My kid is truly high functioning. Only professionals tag her immediately. For everyone else it takes some long term intimate interaction to realize something is wrong. Any autistic adult who says this is great is coping. I have talked to too many high functioning autistic women and there only seem to be two camp: lots of mental health issues with possible commitments or intense treatment that their parents poured so much money into. And never of those is okay or what I'd wish on a kid. I didn't even know it was possible for a 7 year old to be suicidal without a major life event and apparently this is just a thing with some high functioning autistic kids. This is not okay.
DoctorOetker 20d ago
From the language of the paper, replace the commentor's "broken" with "mutant type" instead of unaffected "wild type"

Nobody said they were, but broken in terms of neurotypical circuitry, yes

djaro 20d ago

Autism is a disability. The function of the brain to normally process social cues is broken. In the same way someone who is blind has broken vision, someone in a wheelchair has broken legs, and someone with ADHD has broken executive function. This isnt a moral judgement, theres nothing wrong with being disabled, but it remaims a disability that many people struggle due to.

hoppp 20d ago
The disability exists when compared to neurotypicals but does not necessarily exist when compared to other autists. As a comparison, if you put a bonobo with chimps the bonobo will be severely disabled socially, but it won't be when compared to other bonobos. The fact that autists can communicate with each other does not fit typical models of disability. A blind person should be blind to another blind person.
SubiculumCode 20d ago
There is interesting evidence that autism-autism social interactions are fairly vibrant. Everything is a bit more complicated than simple answers, no matter which way you swing.
forestrywat 20d ago
You've agreed with what I said. Nothing here is counter to or in opposition to my point. The person has a disability. Part of the person may be broken, but the person isn't broken. I'm autistic. My sensory processing wiring is different and arguably broken. But I am not. I'm disabled. I can overcome the broken parts that result in my disability with support.

nick__m 20d ago

There a point on the spectrum where someone cannot function without supervised housing and another one where you have non verbal autistic folks. But I agree broken is not the right word for those poor folks because they were never functional to begin with!

wredcoll 20d ago
We need some word and "differently abled" is just silly. Being blind is a problem. It's not a moral judgment, you aren't less of a person, but you aren't going to be driving any time soon.
- forestrywat 20d ago
  Disabled is the word. Not broken. Not differently abled. We have a perfectly functional word for this.

mapontosevenths 20d ago

Some autistic people have to wear helmets and spend all day rocking back and forth eating anything they find in the carpet. The are unable to care for themselves and depend fully on others. These people are not operating within the nominal range of human behavior that might be classified as "functional." Only 20-30% of adult Autistics can even hold a job. Not a 'good' job, mind you, ANY job.

hoppp 20d ago
90% of autistics are undiagnosed and work.
- switchbak 20d ago
  Wouldn't that be "???"% of autistics are undiagnosed? Because ... they're undiagnosed?
  - hoppp 20d ago
    The 90% is mentioned very commonly. In Uk they made studies about this: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/up-to-90-of-middle-aged-and-older-autistic-adults-are-undiagnosed-in-the-uk-new-review-finds https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/up-to-90-of-middle-aged-and-older...
    - optionalsquid 20d ago
      That study suggests that 65% of autistic individuals are undiagnosed. The 90% is only for middle-aged and older. Skimming a couple (due to time constraints) of the sources mentioned in the study, one source [1] mention that "3 in 10 autistic people of working age are in employment", and the other [2] that "approximately 50% fail to achieve independence in their living status, employment, and close relationships" It doesn't seem to support the claim that "90% of autistics are undiagnosed and work". [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-buckland-review-of-autism-employment-report-and-recommendations/the-buckland-review-of-autism-employment-report-and-recommendations https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-buckland-revi... [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-020-04763-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-020-04763-2

rickydroll 20d ago

I live with a child who spends entire days with videos on his tablet. We can't take him anywhere because if the trip differs from what we told him (trip duration or locations), we have to abort the trip to prevent a meltdown. His inflexibility means he can't hold a job or go to school or training. He can't do household chores without prompting and handholding. He will never live alone or have anything resembling a functional life. We have to make plans for how he will live after his mother and father die. We have to make space for his meltdowns that seem to come out of nowhere. His mother nearly bankrupted herself paying for private school for kids on the spectrum. His parents sued the local school system because they didn't have any teachers who had any skill with autistic children. couldn't protect him from bullying and couldn't or wouldn't follow the IEP. (Note: this is one of those events that ruin retirement plans). The state claims to have resources for my partner and her child, but when they try to get help, the state says it didn't realize she would need that much help. Then there is the never-ending struggle to get appropriate psychiatric and psychological help for him, and if you think it's hard to find a psychiatrist for ordinary mental illnesses, finding someone who knows how to deal with kids on the spectrum is almost impossible. His disability has had a negative impact on my relationship with his mother. As she has to make room for her child's emotional outbursts, I make room for my partner's angst about having a child who will never function on his own. There is a big loss of day-to-day intimacy because you never know when you will have to put up an emotional barrier against his behavior. yea, in my eyes, that counts as broken

ElijahLynn 20d ago
Thank you for sharing your lived experience, it is meaningful. I suspect some who say they like autistic traits, mean "level 1" on the ASD. May I ask if this child is level 2 or level 3 ASD? I'm imagining it is quite a different reality with level 1 vs level 2/3. https://www.autismspeaks.org/levels-of-autism https://www.autismspeaks.org/levels-of-autism
- iteria 20d ago
  My child is a level 1. It has cost me thousands and thousands of dollars to get her help because no one wants to give her resources because she's so high functioning. So high functioning! Yes my child who has random panic attacks and bolts in random directions. My kid who had a meltdown because I forgot to tell a friend that if she goes to one particular park, they have to get ice cream. My kid who is 7 and was suicidal from the social isolation that's starting up. And now that she's self-harming, now people want to give help! But not for the under lying issues. She's so high functioning (aka female and coping decently). She doesn't need pragmatic language help or social help or any of that stuff. Her spiraling is just purely chemical imbalance. Here's some pills. My kid is truly high functioning. Only professionals tag her immediately. For everyone else it takes some long term intimate interaction to realize something is wrong. Any autistic adult who says this is great is coping. I have talked to too many high functioning autistic women and there only seem to be two camp: lots of mental health issues with possible commitments or intense treatment that their parents poured so much money into. And never of those is okay or what I'd wish on a kid. I didn't even know it was possible for a 7 year old to be suicidal without a major life event and apparently this is just a thing with some high functioning autistic kids. This is not okay.

DoctorOetker 20d ago

From the language of the paper, replace the commentor's "broken" with "mutant type" instead of unaffected "wild type"