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I think in the future we'll have robot pets and look back in horror at how we enslaved animals out of their natural habitats and normalized (even glorified) it.

by bilater 20d ago

phplovesong 20d ago
Release the dogs and cats! You are free to roam! Ill think i need to buy dogg pound stock!
onestay42 20d ago
What about the animals that have been domesticated to be pets? It's arguable that their native habitat is the home at this point. Although, I do hope we stop capturing the animals which aren't domesticated (most "exotic" pets).
- rokbenko 17d ago
  [dead]
swiftcoder 20d ago
> look back in horror at how we enslaved animals out of their natural habitats Somehow, vegan-inclined folks never seem to factor in the mass-genocide of domestic breeds that is necessary to achieve their particular utopia. We're talking 1.5 billion pets, 5 billion livestock, and 28 billion poultry - none of which are remotely able to survive on their own in the wild.
- bilater 20d ago
  I detest the vegan movement. I'm not an animal lover. Pets are unsanitary nuisances. Robots are better. We don't need to commit a genocide against domestic pets for the transition. Just breed less.
- j-pb 20d ago
  Wait... do you really think that if everyone goes vegan these animals will get killed, but if everyone eats them they won't? You are aware that all of these livestock animals didn't exist a few months to years ago? And that we go through these animals every couple months-years? Everyone going vegan would just mean we'd stop repleneshing them.
  - swiftcoder 20d ago
    > would just mean we'd stop replenishing them Keep in mind that we already have to perform widespread culling of wild animals in this category. Having eliminated most of the apex predators, we're on the hook to keep populations of wild horses/cattle/deer/etc in check. If we cease to use domestic animals, they end up in the same boat - we're no longer paying to feed and house them, and if they are capable of breeding in the wild, they will breed unchecked. Leading us to cull them, ad infinitum
    - j-pb 20d ago
      You don't get it, do you? The "genocide" that you describe is happening constantly. None of the chicken we have today will be alive in a couple months. We kill them to eat them. If we cease to "use" them, we just keep that "genocide" going for a year, but we just stop breeding new ones. The result is no more animals after a few months/years. And you didn't kill any more than you would have anyways. If you have a sink that is half full because the inflowing water and the outflowing water are in quilibrium, you drain it by turning off the tap (breeding).
      - swiftcoder 19d ago
        > we just keep that "genocide" going for a year, but we just stop breeding new ones "Carry on for a year and then it's all good" is not one of the available choices. Your choices are (a) wipe out the species entirely, or (b) allow them to continue breeding on their own, and commit to culling them for the rest of eternity.
        19d ago
geoffmanning 20d ago
I agree with the horror of pulling animals out of their natural habitat, but if you are using this as a blanket statement towards all living animals then you should read up on the history of the domestication of wolves (dogs). It was born of a beneficial relationship to both humans and wolves and i personally find my relationship with my dogs to be extremely fulfilling and i believe my dogs do as well. I have no interest in a relationship with a robot.
- bilater 20d ago
  I know the history. We bred them to be our pets and normalized this relationship. Your pet might even love his life. But we can do the same with robot AIs, and it will be a better relationship. Your robot can talk to you. It can call 911 if you’re in trouble instead of just barking.
  - hectdev 20d ago
    I'd argue that emotional co-regulation is born out of biological origins. Unless we are making synth, it would be a long time to match the relationship with a living creature.
  - latexr 20d ago
    > it will be a better relationship. There are many many people for whom that will never be close to the same, let alone better. An immortal sack of wires that is passed down through generations is interesting and will appeal to many, but it’s not automatically a “better” relationship than a living creature. > Your robot can talk to you. If you want a conversation, may I suggest another person instead of a pet? > It can call 911 if you’re in trouble instead of just barking. If you want a way to automatically call 911, how about a smartwatch that tracks your vitals and does just that? Anyway, stories of pets calling 911 are a dime a dozen. https://blog.animalreskue.com/guide-dog-saves-blind-owner-by-dialing-911-in-emergency/ https://blog.animalreskue.com/guide-dog-saves-blind-owner-by...
  - vova_hn2 19d ago
    Where would the dogs go? They don't have their own ecological niche and usually can't survive in the wild. In cases when they actually can survive in the wild, stray dogs are known to wreak absolute havoc on the natural native ecosystem. Total dog extermination?
LeafItAlone 20d ago
Interesting how all of the replies so far to your comment assume we’d just release the existing animals into the wild instead of just not breeding more.
- bilater 20d ago
  yup!
- EvanAnderson 20d ago
  I always assumed the "enslaved animal-free" future would be something that came on gradually, likely motivated by economics (i.e. lab-grown meat becoming cheaper and higher quality than farmed, robotic pets being cheaper and more "trouble-free", etc). I never felt like anybody seriously thought we'd release domestic animals into the wild to fend for themselves-- that's ludicrous.
- swiftcoder 20d ago
  > instead of just not breeding more As one might guess, the "just" there is doing a lot of work. Common pets reproduce just fine without our intervention - in practice it requires costly maintenance programs just to keep their population under control (not to mention the massive and ongoing eugenics program required to produce only the desirable breeds/attributes). If your neighbourhood isn't overrun with stray cats and dogs, that's because someone is funding a spay/neuter program, and someone is funding animal control to round up (and ultimately euthanise) the rest. All animal husbandry systems have to be maintained via regular culling, and "eliminating" pets would require orders of magnitude more killing
- rokbenko 17d ago
  [dead]
righthand 20d ago
Spoiler this will end with people having robot sheep, cows, horses, ostriches, toads, and more exotic pets (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?)
rokbenko 17d ago
[dead]

I think in the future we'll have robot pets and look back in horror at how we enslaved animals out of their natural habitats and normalized (even glorified) it.

by bilater 20d ago

I think in the future we'll have robot pets and look back in horror at how we enslaved animals out of their natural habitats and normalized (even glorified) it.

phplovesong 20d ago

Release the dogs and cats! You are free to roam! Ill think i need to buy dogg pound stock!

onestay42 20d ago

What about the animals that have been domesticated to be pets? It's arguable that their native habitat is the home at this point. Although, I do hope we stop capturing the animals which aren't domesticated (most "exotic" pets).

rokbenko 17d ago
[dead]

swiftcoder 20d ago

> look back in horror at how we enslaved animals out of their natural habitats Somehow, vegan-inclined folks never seem to factor in the mass-genocide of domestic breeds that is necessary to achieve their particular utopia. We're talking 1.5 billion pets, 5 billion livestock, and 28 billion poultry - none of which are remotely able to survive on their own in the wild.

bilater 20d ago
I detest the vegan movement. I'm not an animal lover. Pets are unsanitary nuisances. Robots are better. We don't need to commit a genocide against domestic pets for the transition. Just breed less.
j-pb 20d ago
Wait... do you really think that if everyone goes vegan these animals will get killed, but if everyone eats them they won't? You are aware that all of these livestock animals didn't exist a few months to years ago? And that we go through these animals every couple months-years? Everyone going vegan would just mean we'd stop repleneshing them.
- swiftcoder 20d ago
  > would just mean we'd stop replenishing them Keep in mind that we already have to perform widespread culling of wild animals in this category. Having eliminated most of the apex predators, we're on the hook to keep populations of wild horses/cattle/deer/etc in check. If we cease to use domestic animals, they end up in the same boat - we're no longer paying to feed and house them, and if they are capable of breeding in the wild, they will breed unchecked. Leading us to cull them, ad infinitum
  - j-pb 20d ago
    You don't get it, do you? The "genocide" that you describe is happening constantly. None of the chicken we have today will be alive in a couple months. We kill them to eat them. If we cease to "use" them, we just keep that "genocide" going for a year, but we just stop breeding new ones. The result is no more animals after a few months/years. And you didn't kill any more than you would have anyways. If you have a sink that is half full because the inflowing water and the outflowing water are in quilibrium, you drain it by turning off the tap (breeding).
    - swiftcoder 19d ago
      > we just keep that "genocide" going for a year, but we just stop breeding new ones "Carry on for a year and then it's all good" is not one of the available choices. Your choices are (a) wipe out the species entirely, or (b) allow them to continue breeding on their own, and commit to culling them for the rest of eternity.
      - 19d ago

geoffmanning 20d ago

I agree with the horror of pulling animals out of their natural habitat, but if you are using this as a blanket statement towards all living animals then you should read up on the history of the domestication of wolves (dogs). It was born of a beneficial relationship to both humans and wolves and i personally find my relationship with my dogs to be extremely fulfilling and i believe my dogs do as well. I have no interest in a relationship with a robot.

bilater 20d ago
I know the history. We bred them to be our pets and normalized this relationship. Your pet might even love his life. But we can do the same with robot AIs, and it will be a better relationship. Your robot can talk to you. It can call 911 if you’re in trouble instead of just barking.
- hectdev 20d ago
  I'd argue that emotional co-regulation is born out of biological origins. Unless we are making synth, it would be a long time to match the relationship with a living creature.
- latexr 20d ago
  > it will be a better relationship. There are many many people for whom that will never be close to the same, let alone better. An immortal sack of wires that is passed down through generations is interesting and will appeal to many, but it’s not automatically a “better” relationship than a living creature. > Your robot can talk to you. If you want a conversation, may I suggest another person instead of a pet? > It can call 911 if you’re in trouble instead of just barking. If you want a way to automatically call 911, how about a smartwatch that tracks your vitals and does just that? Anyway, stories of pets calling 911 are a dime a dozen. https://blog.animalreskue.com/guide-dog-saves-blind-owner-by-dialing-911-in-emergency/ https://blog.animalreskue.com/guide-dog-saves-blind-owner-by...
- vova_hn2 19d ago
  Where would the dogs go? They don't have their own ecological niche and usually can't survive in the wild. In cases when they actually can survive in the wild, stray dogs are known to wreak absolute havoc on the natural native ecosystem. Total dog extermination?

LeafItAlone 20d ago

Interesting how all of the replies so far to your comment assume we’d just release the existing animals into the wild instead of just not breeding more.

bilater 20d ago
yup!
EvanAnderson 20d ago
I always assumed the "enslaved animal-free" future would be something that came on gradually, likely motivated by economics (i.e. lab-grown meat becoming cheaper and higher quality than farmed, robotic pets being cheaper and more "trouble-free", etc). I never felt like anybody seriously thought we'd release domestic animals into the wild to fend for themselves-- that's ludicrous.
swiftcoder 20d ago
> instead of just not breeding more As one might guess, the "just" there is doing a lot of work. Common pets reproduce just fine without our intervention - in practice it requires costly maintenance programs just to keep their population under control (not to mention the massive and ongoing eugenics program required to produce only the desirable breeds/attributes). If your neighbourhood isn't overrun with stray cats and dogs, that's because someone is funding a spay/neuter program, and someone is funding animal control to round up (and ultimately euthanise) the rest. All animal husbandry systems have to be maintained via regular culling, and "eliminating" pets would require orders of magnitude more killing
rokbenko 17d ago
[dead]

righthand 20d ago

Spoiler this will end with people having robot sheep, cows, horses, ostriches, toads, and more exotic pets (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?)

rokbenko 17d ago

[dead]