5 ms·

couple of notes — 1a. Illegal immigration has nothing to do with visa based, legal immigration. illegal immigration is the type of immigration people are upset

couple of notes — 1a. Illegal immigration has nothing to do with visa based, legal immigration. illegal immigration is the type of immigration people are upset about here in the UK. most people have no problem with legal migration. 1b. anyone claiming the UK’s legal migration is any sort of problem right now, or in the past, should probably not be listened to in any way shape or form for anything they have to say on the matter. 2. a lot of the folks who have illegally entered the country end up asking for asylum, and by law their claims must be processed 3. the dublin convention states something along the lines of “asylum requests must be processed in the first EU country the person entered into”, ie it’s possible to remove people claiming asylum if they initially arrived in a different EU member state country 4. most people get to the uk having traveled through EU member states, because geography. 5. we left the EU, we cannot do 3 anymore. so we have a bunch of people stuck in hotels waiting for asylum claims to be processed. illegal immigration got worse because we left the eu.

ifwinterco 21d ago
People absolutely do have a problem with legal immigration, especially post-Boriswave. If legal immigration means millions of new people every year and rapid demographic change, of course that will cause a political issue. It would be very strange (basically unheard of in human history) if it didn't. People I know who are non-white all report increased racism (mostly not aggressive but noticeable) since Covid, despite having English accents so clearly not being illegal immigrants. That is caused by reckless immigration policy stoking resentment
- cycomanic 20d ago
  There are no millions of people every year, stop spreading lies. Net immigration to the UK in 2025 where 170000 people. Decidedly not millions!
  - bluefirebrand 20d ago
    In Canada it has been closer to 500k per year Maybe not millions per year but millions over a very short time Close to a quarter of our population are immigrants right now. It's become a pretty fragmented society imo as a result.
    - brewdad 20d ago
      When was Canada ever a unified society? You have two official languages primarily based on which end of the country you live in.
      - bluefirebrand 18d ago
        Fair enough. Maybe it's just rose colored glasses then, but it certainly feels like we're more divided than ever before
  - ifwinterco 20d ago
    It’s no longer more than a million a year (thanks Kier Starmer, I guess) but there are now at least 15 million people in the UK who aren’t White British, it is absurd to pretend that isn’t a big number. A lot of people ideally want immigration to be negative, so +170k is still going in the wrong direction. There are potential arguments in favour of that level of immigration but you need to convince people that it’s fine for their country to change beyond all recognition in the space of a single generation. And unsurprisingly, the people trying to do that are finding it a tough sell
    - cycomanic 19d ago
      Net immigration was never more than a million (let alone "millions" which was the lie I responded to). It reached a peak of 900 000 in 2023. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06...
rmah 21d ago
"anyone claiming the UK’s legal migration is any sort of problem right now, or in the past, should probably not be listened to in any way shape or form for anything they have to say on the matter." This sort of position is, IMO, disgusting and immoral. I cannot express how appalled I am that someone would state something like this. Anyone who's a citizen of the UK most certainly has a right to express their opinion on legal immigration, either in favor or against.
- iamacyborg 21d ago
  > Anyone who's a citizen of the UK most certainly has a right to express their opinion on legal immigration, either in favor or against. Sure, but we don’t have to heed their opinion.
  - hdgvhicv 21d ago
    And that’s why we’ll sadly get Farage as Pm, because people like you feed the “metropolitan elite” image.
- dijksterhuis 21d ago
  > should probably not be listened to > a right to express their opinion ...
pjc50 21d ago
> illegal immigration is the type of immigration people are upset about here in the UK. most people have no problem with legal migration. People claim that, but you can't read someone's immigration status from their face.
hdgvhicv 21d ago
Reform take peoples concerns about the massive increase in population numbers and the knock on effects of housing and infrastructure, and cultural clash since we swapped eu immigration for sub Saharan and South Asian, and point it to the small boats. I have no problem with refugees. I do have problem with a million people a year arriving through Heathrow. Farage and co want that though as it’s good for business (more workers, higher asset prices) so they blame it on the tiny numbers of small boats. Brexit meant we swapped immigration of mostly like minded Europeans and temporary workers for permanent immigration from poorer countries with more medieval views. I’m fairly left on the spectrum, I was door stepping for remain, and for Lib Dems in 2017,2019 and a by-election, I’m very much on the tax wealth not work side, and I have no problem in paying tax despite earning more than 90% of the people in the county, including the old folk who just keep taking and never paying. But it seems I’m not left enough because I have a problem with the massive amounts of legal immigration under a populist right wing government and I should be sent to a gulag.
- ifwinterco 20d ago
  Yes, I agree with you. In fact I would argue: if someone is truly left wing in the traditional sense (i.e. they believe Marx when he says politics is all about class conflict, they want to live in a society where workers have more power, they support trade unions etc.) then logically... they should oppose mass immigration. Mass immigration exists because it's in the interests of the capital owning classes. It massively reduces the bargaining power of labour, and the potential power of trade unions. Yet most supposedly "left wing" people support mass immigration and for some reason they can't understand they're voluntarily acting as willing foot soldiers for people they profess to hate

ifwinterco 21d ago

People absolutely do have a problem with legal immigration, especially post-Boriswave. If legal immigration means millions of new people every year and rapid demographic change, of course that will cause a political issue. It would be very strange (basically unheard of in human history) if it didn't. People I know who are non-white all report increased racism (mostly not aggressive but noticeable) since Covid, despite having English accents so clearly not being illegal immigrants. That is caused by reckless immigration policy stoking resentment

cycomanic 20d ago
There are no millions of people every year, stop spreading lies. Net immigration to the UK in 2025 where 170000 people. Decidedly not millions!
- bluefirebrand 20d ago
  In Canada it has been closer to 500k per year Maybe not millions per year but millions over a very short time Close to a quarter of our population are immigrants right now. It's become a pretty fragmented society imo as a result.
  - brewdad 20d ago
    When was Canada ever a unified society? You have two official languages primarily based on which end of the country you live in.
    - bluefirebrand 18d ago
      Fair enough. Maybe it's just rose colored glasses then, but it certainly feels like we're more divided than ever before
- ifwinterco 20d ago
  It’s no longer more than a million a year (thanks Kier Starmer, I guess) but there are now at least 15 million people in the UK who aren’t White British, it is absurd to pretend that isn’t a big number. A lot of people ideally want immigration to be negative, so +170k is still going in the wrong direction. There are potential arguments in favour of that level of immigration but you need to convince people that it’s fine for their country to change beyond all recognition in the space of a single generation. And unsurprisingly, the people trying to do that are finding it a tough sell
  - cycomanic 19d ago
    Net immigration was never more than a million (let alone "millions" which was the lie I responded to). It reached a peak of 900 000 in 2023. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06...

rmah 21d ago

"anyone claiming the UK’s legal migration is any sort of problem right now, or in the past, should probably not be listened to in any way shape or form for anything they have to say on the matter." This sort of position is, IMO, disgusting and immoral. I cannot express how appalled I am that someone would state something like this. Anyone who's a citizen of the UK most certainly has a right to express their opinion on legal immigration, either in favor or against.

iamacyborg 21d ago
> Anyone who's a citizen of the UK most certainly has a right to express their opinion on legal immigration, either in favor or against. Sure, but we don’t have to heed their opinion.
- hdgvhicv 21d ago
  And that’s why we’ll sadly get Farage as Pm, because people like you feed the “metropolitan elite” image.
dijksterhuis 21d ago
> should probably not be listened to > a right to express their opinion ...

pjc50 21d ago

> illegal immigration is the type of immigration people are upset about here in the UK. most people have no problem with legal migration. People claim that, but you can't read someone's immigration status from their face.

hdgvhicv 21d ago

Reform take peoples concerns about the massive increase in population numbers and the knock on effects of housing and infrastructure, and cultural clash since we swapped eu immigration for sub Saharan and South Asian, and point it to the small boats. I have no problem with refugees. I do have problem with a million people a year arriving through Heathrow. Farage and co want that though as it’s good for business (more workers, higher asset prices) so they blame it on the tiny numbers of small boats. Brexit meant we swapped immigration of mostly like minded Europeans and temporary workers for permanent immigration from poorer countries with more medieval views. I’m fairly left on the spectrum, I was door stepping for remain, and for Lib Dems in 2017,2019 and a by-election, I’m very much on the tax wealth not work side, and I have no problem in paying tax despite earning more than 90% of the people in the county, including the old folk who just keep taking and never paying. But it seems I’m not left enough because I have a problem with the massive amounts of legal immigration under a populist right wing government and I should be sent to a gulag.

ifwinterco 20d ago
Yes, I agree with you. In fact I would argue: if someone is truly left wing in the traditional sense (i.e. they believe Marx when he says politics is all about class conflict, they want to live in a society where workers have more power, they support trade unions etc.) then logically... they should oppose mass immigration. Mass immigration exists because it's in the interests of the capital owning classes. It massively reduces the bargaining power of labour, and the potential power of trade unions. Yet most supposedly "left wing" people support mass immigration and for some reason they can't understand they're voluntarily acting as willing foot soldiers for people they profess to hate