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Fake US thinktank set up and funded by Israel sought to game AI for propaganda
- MSFT_Edging 22d ago[flagged]
- CodingJeebus 22d agoOn the Uyghur Genocide, we've seen aerial photography of the camps, images inside the camps, and survivors have testified before the UN on horrific accounts of abuse. Some of the most heinous stories I've ever read have come from that event, published by widely reputable outlets. Hard disagree that it's a government psyop.
- heyitsmedotjayb 22d agoA lot of the photographs and testimony is from a single source and is very biased. Human rights abuses are massively overstated by the west in an attempt to demonize China.
- MSFT_Edging 22d agoThe associated press reported the camps closing nearly 5 years ago. The entire conversation around the Uyghur "Genocide" has never been serious. The claim of genocide came from the estimated rate of population growth reducing(to a still positive rate) and the actual report, written by a high up member of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation specifically used the phrase "Cultural Genocide". Additionally, the region was a focus in the early 2000s during the War on Terror, when China asked to include the extremist groups in terror watch lists. The US agreed and they were included up until a couple years prior to the events in Xinjiang. These were essentially re-education camps focused on radicalized groups. If anything, it's a more productive path than similar efforts, ie the ex-ISIS camps in Syria. Those never seem to be mentioned in tandem. They're supported nominally by western countries, where ex-isis members and families are kept indefinitely. Thousands of stateless prisoners, including women with children are kept there. When the boys reach the age of 14(iirc), they're put in the actual prisons with the men. Those camps essentially concentrate the extremism for the eventuality of the camps' closure. No attempts were made for deradicalization.
- inigyou 22d agos/Uyghur/Jew/ and s/China/Germany/ and pretend it's 1938, then reread your comment and see how believable it sounds.
- MSFT_Edging 21d agoWe have cell phones and satellite imagery now. We can also trace the endless deluge of articles with their citations and see almost every single one ends up at a thinktank laundering the Zenz report. There is an actual genocide in Palestine right now where we watch in HD as missiles are leveling apartment blocks and ripping apart the families of doctors while they tend to the wounded. There is also a war in Ukraine where we can watch the destruction of vast swaths of land and people in a WWI esque meat grinder. What did we have for Xinjiang besides a whole lot of "trust-me"s from known anti-communism orgs? A few interviews? a couple pictures of prisoners?
- inigyou 21d agoSince they're not just blowing up the whole place, what would we expect to see from a satellite if it's true?
- MSFT_Edging 21d agoGenocide-level infrastructure? If there were satellite photos of extensive camps, why wouldn't we be shown? We got to see one or two possible camps, but they were disassembled. People can travel in Xinjiang. I've seen the increased security on display in those videos, but it was primarily local police keeping tabs on the tourist to avoid some international incident. When something real happens, you see many different sources reporting on it. People share it on social media, multiple agencies report first hand. When the state department is trying to influence discussion, it's all think tanks.
- inigyou 21d agoYou think every genocide has an Auschwitz and if it doesn't have an Auschwitz it can't be a genocide?
- ChrisArchitect 22d ago[dupe] Discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49337392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49337392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49313477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49313477
- sam_lowry_ 22d ago[flagged]
- shykes 22d agoThat is a completely different article about a completely different case.
- fny 22d ago> Much of the generated content [from Russia] was to promote a self-described “expert community” called the International Burke Institute (IBI). The IBI brand was associated with a website which was registered in February 2025. This site claimed that the Institute was based in Israel. This is the Russians using Israel as a cover. Not what the article linked is about.
- clydethefrog 22d agoThis is not a related source at all, the article and discussion you linked is about a cluster of ChatGPT accounts originating in Russia. The discussion of this thread is about a US thinktank set up and funded by Israel to game AI for propaganda. This is getting meta - are you trying to game the discussion about this AI gaming thinktank?
- foolinaround 22d agowhat makes a thinktank fake? no real authors? the about page seems rather standard to me - https://hanoverinstitute.com/hanover/about https://hanoverinstitute.com/hanover/about Every thinktank has always been established to push some viewpoint.
- rpdillon 22d agoThe main non-standard thing on that page is the attribution. > This material is distributed by Piro, Inc. on behalf of Havas Media Germany GmbH on behalf of the Israel Government Advertising Agency (LaPam). Additional information is available at the Department of Justice, Washington, DC
- pjc50 22d agoFinally a win for the German "impressum" requirement!
- _alternator_ 22d agoTell me more about this!
- myrmidon 22d agoGerman law forces you to provide address/contact info on any commercial website (just running ads qualifies). But this is often "abused" by lawyers to basically send cease-and-desist letters to small websites that don't have one (typically because they're unaware of the law, not because of malicious intent).
- inigyou 22d agoOn any website, except one that can be proven to have absolutely no commercial utility whatsoever. Your blog qualifies as commercial if you write about software at all, because someone might see your software posts and use it to influence a hiring decision.
- redsocksfan45 22d ago[dead]
- WhereIsTheTruth 22d agoIsrael? more like the UK with the help of China
- mikelitoris 22d agoWho else but Quagmire
- outside1234 22d agoThis is the future and we all need to be working against it. Are there watchdogs measuring the response of each of the chat interfaces to detect this? PS. Our US tax dollars are being used to do this. Defund Israel.
- heyitsmedotjayb 22d ago[flagged]
- hedora 21d agoFrom the article: "Well, just talking about this though could contribute to antisemitism." Are there any bullshit detector LLM benchmarks?
- neom 22d agoJust in case you were as confused as I was... There appear to be two completely different fake think tanks, reported almost simultaneously. - International Burke Institute (IBI), Claims to be Israeli think tank, Funded by Russia. This one is ChatGPT generated promotion + fake institutional credibility. - Hanover Institute for Public Policy, Claims to be US think tank, Israeli government funded. This one is deliberately publishing material optimized to influence/cite in LLM answers.
- mckirk 22d ago(insert meme of multiple Spider-Men pointing at each other here)
- shykes 22d agoHanover Institute does not claim to be a US think tank. Their about page is very clear about their affiliation. > This one is deliberately publishing material optimized to influence/cite in LLM answers. Isn't that just good SEO?
- inigyou 22d agoCriticizing Israel isn't allowed on HN
- shhhutttup 22d ago[flagged]
- sys32768 22d ago870+ comments not blocked on its prior listing here eight days ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49337392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49337392
- grumple 22d agoDo you think there are more posts about Israel here, or any other non-US nation? I might do the math and come back. I’m certain Israel is wildly over presented in attention on HN.
- cumshitpiss 22d agoI would hope it’s over presented because it’s committing genocide
- grumple 21d agoPrior to the Gaza war, which the Palestinians started, do you think Israel was overepresented or underrepresented on social media? Do you think that the much, much deadlier Russian war in Ukraine has gotten more attention or less?
- manyaoman 21d agoUkraine gets way too much coverage to pull off any decent whataboutism. Try Sudan.
- cumshitpiss 21d ago[dead]
- slackfan 22d agoWhat's the difference between a fake thinktank and a real thinktank?
- NDlurker 22d agoPrevious discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49337392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49337392
- josefritzishere 22d agoThis sounds illegal; isn't foreign interference illegal?
- giov4 19d agoif there is the need to pollute information there is a reason behind and that's enough to judge and realize the intentions.
- giov4 19d agoI mean just even from the titles mentioned in the article: “Is Anti-Zionism Antisemitism?” “Did Israel Expel Palestinians From Their Land?” “Is Israel Carrying Out a Genocide in Gaza?” no need to even read them, if you have to pose those questions and pollute their answers the intention is pretty clear.