7 ms·

> In principle you don't need 32-core GHz CPUs to move a window around on a screen without it feeling sluggish I think the snappiness is less this, and more ab

by Closi 22d ago

> In principle you don't need 32-core GHz CPUs to move a window around on a screen without it feeling sluggish I think the snappiness is less this, and more about the speed to open a file, how quickly chrome pops open when you open it etc. I assume this is a combination of hardware and how fast SSD->RAM is due to the SOC, but software will certinaly play a big part too.

teiferer 21d ago
> I assume this is a combination of hardware and how fast SSD->RAM is due to the SOC, but software will certinaly play a big part too. That is exactly what I'm talking about. Sorry, you are completely off. My machine 20 years ago was not an SOC and didn't have an SSD either. It was fast as lightning to open a window. What does this have to do with SSD? Or an SOC? It's all because the software is incredibly bloated, and as your comment indicates, the young generation doesn't even know this and thinks the hardware is to blame because it's 2 gens behind state of the art (so, 3.5 years old). This is very sad and exactly why things are the way they are.
- topato 21d ago
  “Old man yells at cloud” lol, but seriously, you’re definitely correct. Bloated binaries and unnecessary frameworks (electron and soon, tauri). Everything is built for the web, then forced into a broken and bloated mobile app and desktop binary. Zero platform optimization anymore. I keep my chromium and chromium profile loaded into a ram drive, and it’s still slow and sluggish. Tech debt and a growing monorepo has damaged it beyond recovery. I really hope those two new browser engines reach a usable state soon. Chromium, WebKit, gecko have been doing for too long without a full foundational overhaul.
- simiones 21d ago
  > My machine 20 years ago was not an SOC and didn't have an SSD either. It was fast as lightning to open a window. I never understand what people exactly mean by claims like this. I very vividly remember double clicking some executable, and then immediately hearing the HDD start to spin, and waiting with baited breath to see if it will spawn a window or silently fail, as programs on Windows 98 (the only option for personal computers at the time) often did. So what exactly was snappy? Nothing that runs off a HDD is ever snappy.
  - Closi 21d ago
    Yes! And all the splash screens! Or even just the computer taking 5 minutes to start up.
  - teiferer 21d ago
    > I very vividly remember double clicking some executable, and then immediately hearing the HDD start to spin, Are you sure about that? At that time, hard drives were constantly spinning. Getting them to suspend was a rare feat. > programs on Windows 98 (the only option for personal computers at the time) often did. 20 years ago, Windows 98 had long been abandoned. At that time I had been running a Linux desktop for many years already. > Nothing that runs off a HDD is ever snappy. Of course it can be. By already being in RAM. Open another window of some program didn't need to touch the HDD. If I nowadays open another instance of some electron thing, it takes a while load those gigabytes of bloat and make dozens of network roundtrips. I'm not saying all software 20 years ago was snappy. But today's bloat is undeniable. The user experience has not improved with the orders of magnitude (!) with which the hardware has gotten more performant. I think people don't realize how much more performant today's hardware is. Mostly because the bloated and terribly architected software eats it all up.
    - simiones 20d ago
      > Are you sure about that? At that time, hard drives were constantly spinning. Getting them to suspend was a rare feat. I am pretty sure, though, of course, memory is highly fallible (and note that I was a kid back then, and didn't understand that well what those sounds or the blinking disk light actually meant). > 20 years ago, Windows 98 had long been abandoned. At that time I had been running a Linux desktop for many years already. 20 years ago means the mid-to-late nineties. That's my position and I'm sticking with it /s But I think it's undeniable that Linux in the 2000s was a massive pain for anyone but the most dedicated tinker, and even then only for pretty carefully chosen hardware. The Year of the Linux Desktop meme existed for a very clear reason. Virtually the entire PC user base, both Consumer and Corporate, was running Windows XP in the 2000s.
- Closi 21d ago
  > Sorry, you are completely off. My machine 20 years ago was not an SOC and didn't have an SSD either. It was fast as lightning to open a window. On my machine 20 years ago most apps had some sort of loading splash screen, so I think you just have rose tinted glasses imo! You don’t really get those anymore - you click and the app is open.

by Closi 22d ago

teiferer 21d ago

> I assume this is a combination of hardware and how fast SSD->RAM is due to the SOC, but software will certinaly play a big part too. That is exactly what I'm talking about. Sorry, you are completely off. My machine 20 years ago was not an SOC and didn't have an SSD either. It was fast as lightning to open a window. What does this have to do with SSD? Or an SOC? It's all because the software is incredibly bloated, and as your comment indicates, the young generation doesn't even know this and thinks the hardware is to blame because it's 2 gens behind state of the art (so, 3.5 years old). This is very sad and exactly why things are the way they are.

topato 21d ago
“Old man yells at cloud” lol, but seriously, you’re definitely correct. Bloated binaries and unnecessary frameworks (electron and soon, tauri). Everything is built for the web, then forced into a broken and bloated mobile app and desktop binary. Zero platform optimization anymore. I keep my chromium and chromium profile loaded into a ram drive, and it’s still slow and sluggish. Tech debt and a growing monorepo has damaged it beyond recovery. I really hope those two new browser engines reach a usable state soon. Chromium, WebKit, gecko have been doing for too long without a full foundational overhaul.
simiones 21d ago
> My machine 20 years ago was not an SOC and didn't have an SSD either. It was fast as lightning to open a window. I never understand what people exactly mean by claims like this. I very vividly remember double clicking some executable, and then immediately hearing the HDD start to spin, and waiting with baited breath to see if it will spawn a window or silently fail, as programs on Windows 98 (the only option for personal computers at the time) often did. So what exactly was snappy? Nothing that runs off a HDD is ever snappy.
- Closi 21d ago
  Yes! And all the splash screens! Or even just the computer taking 5 minutes to start up.
- teiferer 21d ago
  > I very vividly remember double clicking some executable, and then immediately hearing the HDD start to spin, Are you sure about that? At that time, hard drives were constantly spinning. Getting them to suspend was a rare feat. > programs on Windows 98 (the only option for personal computers at the time) often did. 20 years ago, Windows 98 had long been abandoned. At that time I had been running a Linux desktop for many years already. > Nothing that runs off a HDD is ever snappy. Of course it can be. By already being in RAM. Open another window of some program didn't need to touch the HDD. If I nowadays open another instance of some electron thing, it takes a while load those gigabytes of bloat and make dozens of network roundtrips. I'm not saying all software 20 years ago was snappy. But today's bloat is undeniable. The user experience has not improved with the orders of magnitude (!) with which the hardware has gotten more performant. I think people don't realize how much more performant today's hardware is. Mostly because the bloated and terribly architected software eats it all up.
  - simiones 20d ago
    > Are you sure about that? At that time, hard drives were constantly spinning. Getting them to suspend was a rare feat. I am pretty sure, though, of course, memory is highly fallible (and note that I was a kid back then, and didn't understand that well what those sounds or the blinking disk light actually meant). > 20 years ago, Windows 98 had long been abandoned. At that time I had been running a Linux desktop for many years already. 20 years ago means the mid-to-late nineties. That's my position and I'm sticking with it /s But I think it's undeniable that Linux in the 2000s was a massive pain for anyone but the most dedicated tinker, and even then only for pretty carefully chosen hardware. The Year of the Linux Desktop meme existed for a very clear reason. Virtually the entire PC user base, both Consumer and Corporate, was running Windows XP in the 2000s.
Closi 21d ago
> Sorry, you are completely off. My machine 20 years ago was not an SOC and didn't have an SSD either. It was fast as lightning to open a window. On my machine 20 years ago most apps had some sort of loading splash screen, so I think you just have rose tinted glasses imo! You don’t really get those anymore - you click and the app is open.