7 ms·

> Not updating to Tahoe helps with that too. Apple - the absolute kings of planned obsolescence. Who else could do it so brazenly AND have a bunch of zealots w

by harry8 22d ago

> Not updating to Tahoe helps with that too. Apple - the absolute kings of planned obsolescence. Who else could do it so brazenly AND have a bunch of zealots who will now reply to this defending them and attcking anyone who points it out. Any industry not involving a computer they'd be in big trouble even with their massive (legal) bribes to politicians and fortune spent on legal teams.

transcriptase 22d ago
Their “sorry this hardware is too old to run the latest macOS” seems entirely based on KPIs versus capabilities. There’s absolutely no reason a maxed out MacBook Pro from 10 years ago shouldn’t be able to run something like the ChatGPT or Claude app, because those seem to think they need a newer version of the OS and Apple has decided that a 8 core 3.8ghz i7 with 32gb of ram is obsolete
- Klonoar 22d ago
  That sounds like it’s more on those apps, because they aren’t doing much special unless I’m missing something.
- ChrisMarshallNY 22d ago
  I run a 2012 MacBook Air 11” for Zoom meetings. It’s stuck on Catalina, but it runs fine. If I really wanted (which I don’t), I could probably hack it to run newer operating systems. I know there’s a few ways to do that.
  - harry8 22d ago
    On an x86 laptop you run linux. Too easy. xfce if it's 4G ram. Can you do that with an M{1..4} ? You sure can't do it with an iphone. I own one an iphone 15. Was beautiful when new. Even now it has started on the path of suck. Apple have "upgraded" it to have a more frustrating touchscreen because they clearly think I should give them more money to keep the experience I bought. They are not cheap. Apple are the absolute kings of planned obsolescence. Zealots going for silent downvotws because there is no case they can make to the contrary. Not what downvotes are for, says HN but we're all used to HN being used like this by now.
    - spockz 22d ago
      You can run Asahi Linux on M1 for sure and I think also M2 now.
      - maleldil 22d ago
        It's not the same as running on an x86 Mac, though. Asahi's efforts are herculean, but it will always be an uphill battle. Many things are still unsupported, even on M1.
        spockz 22d ago
        Yes exactly. Most notably UsB-C monitor support.
    - vintagedave 22d ago
      What did they change in the touchscreen?
      - harry8 22d ago
        Latency mostly. Maybe it’s an illusion flowing from the latency stutters but it really doesn’t feel as precise as when it was new.
        NetMageSCW 21d ago
        No, Apple didn’t do that. It’s just your subconscious trying to get you to upgrade.
        harry8 21d ago
        The latency is not an illusion and yes Apple absolutely did that. It isn't plausible that they don't know they are doing it. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Go pick up an iphone 6 and try to do anything with it and then tell me that is how awful the ui was when it was released to apple orchestrated media fanfare. Or any older ipad. Imagine if that ui extreme sluggishness, random delay and the button moving just as you hit it is what they were showing off at launch. The laughter would have haunted them all the way to the accountants telling them their options were now worthless. Apple latency degradation is not worth discussing with anyone who says it isn't happening. You can't solve whatever issues they have.
- xp84 19d ago
  The reason why the apps won't run is the weird SDK thing. As a Mac or iOS developer you can only run certain versions of XCode and each version of XCode supports only the most recent couple of OS SDKs. If you freeze everything in amber, like, keep a Mac on the 2016 Mac OS release, you can keep shipping compatible builds forever, but at some point just by virtue of one of your developers buying a new computer suddenly locks a minimum Mac OS, which has a minimum XCode, which means a certain minimum SDK version, which dictates a minimum Mac OS target. And besides that, to use just one new feature you pretty much have to jump to the very latest SDK, and from there, supporting even one version back means forking your codebase and backporting, so it doesn't take long for 90% of software to abandon old versions. I know that in some ways Apple is better than their hardware-making peers in terms of supporting current OS on hardware made a few years back. But compared to other software vendors, say, Microsoft, they are terrible. Golden Gate runs on 2020 and newer macs. Windows 11 runs on 2017 8th-gen Intel CPUs and better. Windows 10 is supported even on PCs from 2006 with 4GB of RAM - and importantly, a ton of modern software (e.g. Chrome) is still compatible with Windows 10. The comparison may be relevant since it seems Apple is incentivized primarily to move hardware, whereas Microsoft seems like they want to promote Windows as a stable, non-fragmented platform you can trust, both as a consumer and as a developer. One of their worst-received OSs was the one that basically forced most users to buy a new PC -- Vista. (And to a lesser degree, the TPM 2.0 requirement in Win11.)

by harry8 22d ago

transcriptase 22d ago

Their “sorry this hardware is too old to run the latest macOS” seems entirely based on KPIs versus capabilities. There’s absolutely no reason a maxed out MacBook Pro from 10 years ago shouldn’t be able to run something like the ChatGPT or Claude app, because those seem to think they need a newer version of the OS and Apple has decided that a 8 core 3.8ghz i7 with 32gb of ram is obsolete

Klonoar 22d ago
That sounds like it’s more on those apps, because they aren’t doing much special unless I’m missing something.
ChrisMarshallNY 22d ago
I run a 2012 MacBook Air 11” for Zoom meetings. It’s stuck on Catalina, but it runs fine. If I really wanted (which I don’t), I could probably hack it to run newer operating systems. I know there’s a few ways to do that.
- harry8 22d ago
  On an x86 laptop you run linux. Too easy. xfce if it's 4G ram. Can you do that with an M{1..4} ? You sure can't do it with an iphone. I own one an iphone 15. Was beautiful when new. Even now it has started on the path of suck. Apple have "upgraded" it to have a more frustrating touchscreen because they clearly think I should give them more money to keep the experience I bought. They are not cheap. Apple are the absolute kings of planned obsolescence. Zealots going for silent downvotws because there is no case they can make to the contrary. Not what downvotes are for, says HN but we're all used to HN being used like this by now.
  - spockz 22d ago
    You can run Asahi Linux on M1 for sure and I think also M2 now.
    - maleldil 22d ago
      It's not the same as running on an x86 Mac, though. Asahi's efforts are herculean, but it will always be an uphill battle. Many things are still unsupported, even on M1.
      - spockz 22d ago
        Yes exactly. Most notably UsB-C monitor support.
  - vintagedave 22d ago
    What did they change in the touchscreen?
    - harry8 22d ago
      Latency mostly. Maybe it’s an illusion flowing from the latency stutters but it really doesn’t feel as precise as when it was new.
      - NetMageSCW 21d ago
        No, Apple didn’t do that. It’s just your subconscious trying to get you to upgrade.
        harry8 21d ago
        The latency is not an illusion and yes Apple absolutely did that. It isn't plausible that they don't know they are doing it. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Go pick up an iphone 6 and try to do anything with it and then tell me that is how awful the ui was when it was released to apple orchestrated media fanfare. Or any older ipad. Imagine if that ui extreme sluggishness, random delay and the button moving just as you hit it is what they were showing off at launch. The laughter would have haunted them all the way to the accountants telling them their options were now worthless. Apple latency degradation is not worth discussing with anyone who says it isn't happening. You can't solve whatever issues they have.
xp84 19d ago
The reason why the apps won't run is the weird SDK thing. As a Mac or iOS developer you can only run certain versions of XCode and each version of XCode supports only the most recent couple of OS SDKs. If you freeze everything in amber, like, keep a Mac on the 2016 Mac OS release, you can keep shipping compatible builds forever, but at some point just by virtue of one of your developers buying a new computer suddenly locks a minimum Mac OS, which has a minimum XCode, which means a certain minimum SDK version, which dictates a minimum Mac OS target. And besides that, to use just one new feature you pretty much have to jump to the very latest SDK, and from there, supporting even one version back means forking your codebase and backporting, so it doesn't take long for 90% of software to abandon old versions. I know that in some ways Apple is better than their hardware-making peers in terms of supporting current OS on hardware made a few years back. But compared to other software vendors, say, Microsoft, they are terrible. Golden Gate runs on 2020 and newer macs. Windows 11 runs on 2017 8th-gen Intel CPUs and better. Windows 10 is supported even on PCs from 2006 with 4GB of RAM - and importantly, a ton of modern software (e.g. Chrome) is still compatible with Windows 10. The comparison may be relevant since it seems Apple is incentivized primarily to move hardware, whereas Microsoft seems like they want to promote Windows as a stable, non-fragmented platform you can trust, both as a consumer and as a developer. One of their worst-received OSs was the one that basically forced most users to buy a new PC -- Vista. (And to a lesser degree, the TPM 2.0 requirement in Win11.)