7 ms·

I've been thinking about this a fair bit recently. We make a lot of price/performance compromises for having an attached screen and keyboard on our computer. T

I've been thinking about this a fair bit recently. We make a lot of price/performance compromises for having an attached screen and keyboard on our computer. That was what got me started. Then I remembered the days of having to go to a special corner of the house to use a computer, vs now when I have a computer with me all the time. In my bag, on the sofa, on the train. Hell, I'm writing this on the work MBP while waiting for an appointment. And you know what, I think I got more done when I went and sat in a corner of the house all those years ago. I set up an area for "computer work", and it worked really well. I have a home office, but it's a jumble of cables going into docking stations and all sorts of weird stuff. I think if I streamline it and turn it into a proper "computer room", I might get some of that mojo back. I might even convince my partner that surrendering the home office and having a corner of the den might be good - she can watch TV while I tinker. And I won't be balancing a laptop on my knee and trying to do two things at once. And the price/performance thing comes back in. Hmm.

AshleyGrant 23d ago
There is a definite mental aspect for most WFH folks to having a space that is dedicated to work. I'm not unique in saying this, but the way I put it is "If you work from anywhere in your house, then you're always at work." And that, from mental load standpoint, is not healthy for most folks.
- jrrv 22d ago
  Or, if you're like me then "if you work from anywhere in your house, then you're never at work."
  - mjcohen 22d ago
    [flagged]
    - clickety_clack 22d ago
      I read it as though he’s “working”, like quiet quitting or something.
    - satvikpendem 22d ago
      Or you're never at work, like they said.
      - internet2000 22d ago
        [flagged]
        phil21 22d ago
        For most people, I'd reckon they are never at work. There is a reason we know that remote learning is horrible for most people compared to in-classroom. We proved this decisively during COVID. There is zero reason to believe that most folks magically change overnight from being incapable of remote learning to being highly capable remote workers. It's just not believable. I hired remote workers in the 90's. It was a small fraction of the total candidate base that could successfully self-motivate and have the discipline to become high performers in such an environment over the long haul. Most of my interviewing and candidate vetting had to do with the remote aspect vs. technical skillset. Luckily around that time is when open source became a huge thing, so those projects presented a pool of pre-vetted candidates to hire out of. The rest of the candidate pool was a total crapshoot. Remote working has become easier and the tooling and technology much better. But from where I'm standing - many folks do not take it seriously. Simple stuff like having backup Internet is a filtering question for me even today.
        switchbak 22d ago
        “Simple stuff like having backup Internet” that sounds expensive. Who has room to back up the entire Internet? Personally on the 0.2 days a year I have to worry about it, I just head to the coffee shop. Or you know … take a couple hours off (shock!). Also I’ve spent literally decades working with very highly productive people exclusively remotely. None of us find this odd. Not sure why you have that level of suspicion/distrust. Granted, things have changed a lot since the 90s.
        fHr 22d ago
        Backup imternet? Everyone has a cellphone to tether from these days no?
- loehnsberg 22d ago
  On some days I wor from home but need to be present and the sun is out. So I take my laptop outside and work from there. I cannot do this with a desktop. Wouldn‘t the workaholic just stay inside and miss out?
  - abustamam 22d ago
    Sometimes I'll just pop into a meeting from my phone and walk around. That said , I do have a laptop but only because I go to the office every so often . Otherwise, I work exclusively from my home office because that's where my home desktop computer is and I control everything on my work computer from there.
    - baxtr 22d ago
      Camera on or off? I love taking meetings while walking but since Covid everyone has their camera on making sedentary meetings mandatory.
      - mikestorrent 22d ago
        There's a lot of value in camera-on, but for some meetings, I love being camera off, nowhere near my computer, somewhere else in the house, watering plants or sweeping the floor. Sometimes it actually has me MORE engaged with the verbal aspect of the meeting, listening better, speaking better, because there's less distraction from Slack and Hacker News...
        phatskat 22d ago
        I'm much more attentive in some meetings when my hands aren't on the keyboard. For particularly important meetings I'll get out my knitting so that I can be close by while having something that's not failing unit tests occupying my hands
      - abustamam 22d ago
        Off now, but historically even at camera on companies I'd do whatever and just hold my phone when convenient for me or just shove the meeting in my pocket if I need my hands. Obviously depends on your team culture, but try it :)
simgt 23d ago
I've done that, but I chose a Framework Desktop instead. The latest Fedora is closer to Snow Leopard than anything Apple has to offer. Downside is that I still have my MBP because of the lock-in and occasionally pick it up to do computer stuff in weird places.
- ahknight 23d ago
  I got used to the hub-and-spoke model at home (previously thin terminal, server-client, etc.). Big ole desktop/server and smaller devices that (ab)use it remotely. Roam around with a smaller computer/tablet/phone. Tailscale to bind it all together. If your computing needs line up, it's a very serviceable approach.
  - fallinditch 22d ago
    Yes, this is my approach now: a home server with devices connected via Tailscale. I'm starting to do more from my phone and less on the laptop. I haven't added my iPad to the Tailnet yet but i reckon that it could become a very comfortable and productive device for me.
- novafunc 22d ago
  While I do love Fedora, I Wouldn't call it a "Snow Leopard". Around August 5th, there's been numerous regressions when it comes to AMD graphics. First a kernel regression that resulting in artifacts on the desktop. Then a linux-firmware regression with decoding AV1 videos that resulting in 4 prominent columns and constant major color shifts. Its update policy can result in this sort of regressions in a middle of a release. One thing that's nicer thing about macOS is that a released version doesn't regress as much (even if they are buggier at release; but in that case you can just wait until a later point release to upgrade).
- deleted 22d ago
  [deleted]
alexdobrenko 23d ago
BRING BACK THE COMPUTER ROOM
- johanvts 23d ago
  A fathers gift
  - marcsnid 22d ago
    We're turning your bedroom back into the computer room
- speed_spread 22d ago
  Got my hiking boots ready.
- lostlogin 22d ago
  The wired network connection is just so good. But the couch is just so comfy.
flaunf221 23d ago
To me the idea of working on (non-docked) laptop always seemed like an idea that you would do only if there is no other possible way. Screen is small and is only one. Ergonomics is entirely messed up. Either your screen is too low, or your keyboard is too high. Keyboards are non-ergonomic and have to be made with compromises due to height limits. Touchpad instead of mouse/trackball is compromise for many - and also stuck at one position. And yet they have somehow spread despite number of people going on business trips not really increasing.
- jmalicki 23d ago
  You can dock your laptop at work, then dock it at home, take it with you to a meeting room at work to browse supplemental materials and/or project your screen n the meeting, and use it for the occasional trip (like using it on the train to work). It's not like you have to be on a plane for the portability to be useful.
  - RealityVoid 22d ago
    I think the point of OP is that while laptops are fine for business trips, tethered usage is superior. My setup is a laptop. Both at home and as work I have a solid desk with an ergonomic chair. On the desk are thunderbolt docks, the docks have hooked the keyboard I like, 2 monitors on mobile stands. And that's it. I have most the advantage of a desktop while using the same machine. One cable to unplug. Super nifty.
    - jmalicki 21d ago
      I see it now, I misread. Still, being able to take you laptop to a meeting to either project, or to look up related material to catch up and clarify before making a point in a meeting etc. is invaluable (no, working at a laptop during a meeting doesn't mean you're not paying attention, it often means you're cross-referencing discussions with other data live).
- thefaux 23d ago
  It sounds like you don't code much in bed or with your feet up. A laptop is a distinct tool from a desktop and if you try to use it like a desktop, I agree it is a terrible substitute. Personally I find laptops vastly more ergonomic than a desktop, but I never program with my feet on the ground.
mort96 23d ago
I went some time without a desktop computer at home. The idea was, I have a perfectly good laptop, I'll just connect it with a dock when I want to use a desktop-like device. Never ended up happening. I didn't get much done at home at all and what I did get done was mostly on the couch; not a great environment for serious work. (I have an office where I do for-profit work so it's not an issue, but still, I like my side projects too) Eventually I had enough decommissioned computer parts that I could assemble them and re-commission them into a working desktop. So I now have a desktop again. And I actually end up sitting at the desk working on stuff on the desktop in a way I rarely did with the laptop.
jareklupinski 23d ago
every time i try to 'streamline the computer setup' i get reminded that losing 'the desk' was the worst part / saddest moment
ModernMech 23d ago
[dead]
harikb 22d ago
Is there an option to "use the remote computer just as it was local" even between two Macs? Sure, terminal/ssh is enough for most use-cases, but this is something I expected from Apple as builtin. I can tailscale into my home network, but what next? VNC/TeamViewer/Remote Desktop setups are all mediocre imho.
- fpoling 22d ago
  Unfortunately there is nothing that works as nicely as Windows Remote Desktop. Probably the best option is various commercial offerings as Apple Remote Desktop is rather buggy and unstable.
- lostlogin 22d ago
  Apple Remote Desktop is very usable. I have a headless mini and have managed to fool myself about which machine I’m on, over WiFi.
  - genx-joe 22d ago
    What are you using to connect to the headless mini to use as a primary?
    - lostlogin 22d ago
      I’m on a MacBook Pro. Using a combo of Terminal, Apple Remote Desktop or Screen Sharing (from desktop, command K, VNC://<IP> then connect. It’s pretty good. To be clear, it’s not ever supposed to be a primary. It just becomes one from time to time when I make it full screen and am not paying attention.
- rwc 22d ago
  Astropad Workbench
- boplicity 22d ago
  I once tinkered with the game streaming set up available via Steam, so I could do it in a way where it streamed the normal complete desktop setup. I used it to operate my desktop from the laptop. It worked relatively well, but wasn't perfect. It was as close to what you're describing as I've seen, though. This was a few years ago; something like this might work even better now.
mikepurvis 22d ago
I switched back to a desktop tower a few years ago as well. Notably, I don't use external displays with the work-issued laptop, but rather set up the laptop on a stand alongside the dual 1440p displays and have synergy for mouse and keyboard sharing.
Forgeties79 22d ago
Man I did exactly this with the PC I built last April, it was the best decision ever. I love having a dedicated space with a huge tower running everything. Two big monitors mounted to the back of the desk on arms, huge mechanical keyboard in the middle with a big ergonomic mouse pad and hand shoe mouse. It’s a whole “thing” when I go to the computer now. And frankly, it’s made it way more fun to use. It’s kind of like enjoying the process of listening to vinyl rather than pulling up a song on Spotify
dbtc 22d ago
As long as we keep going back-and-forth and buying stuff, trying to figure it out, the economy will be in good shape.
ed_elliott_asc 22d ago
You don’t need to spend all that money to get your mojo back, make the changes that you would make I.e. leave the MacBook on your desk and see if life improves.

AshleyGrant 23d ago

There is a definite mental aspect for most WFH folks to having a space that is dedicated to work. I'm not unique in saying this, but the way I put it is "If you work from anywhere in your house, then you're always at work." And that, from mental load standpoint, is not healthy for most folks.

jrrv 22d ago
Or, if you're like me then "if you work from anywhere in your house, then you're never at work."
- mjcohen 22d ago
  [flagged]
  - clickety_clack 22d ago
    I read it as though he’s “working”, like quiet quitting or something.
  - satvikpendem 22d ago
    Or you're never at work, like they said.
    - internet2000 22d ago
      [flagged]
      - phil21 22d ago
        For most people, I'd reckon they are never at work. There is a reason we know that remote learning is horrible for most people compared to in-classroom. We proved this decisively during COVID. There is zero reason to believe that most folks magically change overnight from being incapable of remote learning to being highly capable remote workers. It's just not believable. I hired remote workers in the 90's. It was a small fraction of the total candidate base that could successfully self-motivate and have the discipline to become high performers in such an environment over the long haul. Most of my interviewing and candidate vetting had to do with the remote aspect vs. technical skillset. Luckily around that time is when open source became a huge thing, so those projects presented a pool of pre-vetted candidates to hire out of. The rest of the candidate pool was a total crapshoot. Remote working has become easier and the tooling and technology much better. But from where I'm standing - many folks do not take it seriously. Simple stuff like having backup Internet is a filtering question for me even today.
        switchbak 22d ago
        “Simple stuff like having backup Internet” that sounds expensive. Who has room to back up the entire Internet? Personally on the 0.2 days a year I have to worry about it, I just head to the coffee shop. Or you know … take a couple hours off (shock!). Also I’ve spent literally decades working with very highly productive people exclusively remotely. None of us find this odd. Not sure why you have that level of suspicion/distrust. Granted, things have changed a lot since the 90s.
        fHr 22d ago
        Backup imternet? Everyone has a cellphone to tether from these days no?
loehnsberg 22d ago
On some days I wor from home but need to be present and the sun is out. So I take my laptop outside and work from there. I cannot do this with a desktop. Wouldn‘t the workaholic just stay inside and miss out?
- abustamam 22d ago
  Sometimes I'll just pop into a meeting from my phone and walk around. That said , I do have a laptop but only because I go to the office every so often . Otherwise, I work exclusively from my home office because that's where my home desktop computer is and I control everything on my work computer from there.
  - baxtr 22d ago
    Camera on or off? I love taking meetings while walking but since Covid everyone has their camera on making sedentary meetings mandatory.
    - mikestorrent 22d ago
      There's a lot of value in camera-on, but for some meetings, I love being camera off, nowhere near my computer, somewhere else in the house, watering plants or sweeping the floor. Sometimes it actually has me MORE engaged with the verbal aspect of the meeting, listening better, speaking better, because there's less distraction from Slack and Hacker News...
      - phatskat 22d ago
        I'm much more attentive in some meetings when my hands aren't on the keyboard. For particularly important meetings I'll get out my knitting so that I can be close by while having something that's not failing unit tests occupying my hands
    - abustamam 22d ago
      Off now, but historically even at camera on companies I'd do whatever and just hold my phone when convenient for me or just shove the meeting in my pocket if I need my hands. Obviously depends on your team culture, but try it :)

simgt 23d ago

I've done that, but I chose a Framework Desktop instead. The latest Fedora is closer to Snow Leopard than anything Apple has to offer. Downside is that I still have my MBP because of the lock-in and occasionally pick it up to do computer stuff in weird places.

ahknight 23d ago
I got used to the hub-and-spoke model at home (previously thin terminal, server-client, etc.). Big ole desktop/server and smaller devices that (ab)use it remotely. Roam around with a smaller computer/tablet/phone. Tailscale to bind it all together. If your computing needs line up, it's a very serviceable approach.
- fallinditch 22d ago
  Yes, this is my approach now: a home server with devices connected via Tailscale. I'm starting to do more from my phone and less on the laptop. I haven't added my iPad to the Tailnet yet but i reckon that it could become a very comfortable and productive device for me.
novafunc 22d ago
While I do love Fedora, I Wouldn't call it a "Snow Leopard". Around August 5th, there's been numerous regressions when it comes to AMD graphics. First a kernel regression that resulting in artifacts on the desktop. Then a linux-firmware regression with decoding AV1 videos that resulting in 4 prominent columns and constant major color shifts. Its update policy can result in this sort of regressions in a middle of a release. One thing that's nicer thing about macOS is that a released version doesn't regress as much (even if they are buggier at release; but in that case you can just wait until a later point release to upgrade).
deleted 22d ago
[deleted]

alexdobrenko 23d ago

BRING BACK THE COMPUTER ROOM

johanvts 23d ago
A fathers gift
- marcsnid 22d ago
  We're turning your bedroom back into the computer room
speed_spread 22d ago
Got my hiking boots ready.
lostlogin 22d ago
The wired network connection is just so good. But the couch is just so comfy.

flaunf221 23d ago

To me the idea of working on (non-docked) laptop always seemed like an idea that you would do only if there is no other possible way. Screen is small and is only one. Ergonomics is entirely messed up. Either your screen is too low, or your keyboard is too high. Keyboards are non-ergonomic and have to be made with compromises due to height limits. Touchpad instead of mouse/trackball is compromise for many - and also stuck at one position. And yet they have somehow spread despite number of people going on business trips not really increasing.

jmalicki 23d ago
You can dock your laptop at work, then dock it at home, take it with you to a meeting room at work to browse supplemental materials and/or project your screen n the meeting, and use it for the occasional trip (like using it on the train to work). It's not like you have to be on a plane for the portability to be useful.
- RealityVoid 22d ago
  I think the point of OP is that while laptops are fine for business trips, tethered usage is superior. My setup is a laptop. Both at home and as work I have a solid desk with an ergonomic chair. On the desk are thunderbolt docks, the docks have hooked the keyboard I like, 2 monitors on mobile stands. And that's it. I have most the advantage of a desktop while using the same machine. One cable to unplug. Super nifty.
  - jmalicki 21d ago
    I see it now, I misread. Still, being able to take you laptop to a meeting to either project, or to look up related material to catch up and clarify before making a point in a meeting etc. is invaluable (no, working at a laptop during a meeting doesn't mean you're not paying attention, it often means you're cross-referencing discussions with other data live).
thefaux 23d ago
It sounds like you don't code much in bed or with your feet up. A laptop is a distinct tool from a desktop and if you try to use it like a desktop, I agree it is a terrible substitute. Personally I find laptops vastly more ergonomic than a desktop, but I never program with my feet on the ground.

mort96 23d ago

I went some time without a desktop computer at home. The idea was, I have a perfectly good laptop, I'll just connect it with a dock when I want to use a desktop-like device. Never ended up happening. I didn't get much done at home at all and what I did get done was mostly on the couch; not a great environment for serious work. (I have an office where I do for-profit work so it's not an issue, but still, I like my side projects too) Eventually I had enough decommissioned computer parts that I could assemble them and re-commission them into a working desktop. So I now have a desktop again. And I actually end up sitting at the desk working on stuff on the desktop in a way I rarely did with the laptop.

jareklupinski 23d ago

every time i try to 'streamline the computer setup' i get reminded that losing 'the desk' was the worst part / saddest moment

ModernMech 23d ago

[dead]

harikb 22d ago

Is there an option to "use the remote computer just as it was local" even between two Macs? Sure, terminal/ssh is enough for most use-cases, but this is something I expected from Apple as builtin. I can tailscale into my home network, but what next? VNC/TeamViewer/Remote Desktop setups are all mediocre imho.

fpoling 22d ago
Unfortunately there is nothing that works as nicely as Windows Remote Desktop. Probably the best option is various commercial offerings as Apple Remote Desktop is rather buggy and unstable.
lostlogin 22d ago
Apple Remote Desktop is very usable. I have a headless mini and have managed to fool myself about which machine I’m on, over WiFi.
- genx-joe 22d ago
  What are you using to connect to the headless mini to use as a primary?
  - lostlogin 22d ago
    I’m on a MacBook Pro. Using a combo of Terminal, Apple Remote Desktop or Screen Sharing (from desktop, command K, VNC://<IP> then connect. It’s pretty good. To be clear, it’s not ever supposed to be a primary. It just becomes one from time to time when I make it full screen and am not paying attention.
rwc 22d ago
Astropad Workbench
boplicity 22d ago
I once tinkered with the game streaming set up available via Steam, so I could do it in a way where it streamed the normal complete desktop setup. I used it to operate my desktop from the laptop. It worked relatively well, but wasn't perfect. It was as close to what you're describing as I've seen, though. This was a few years ago; something like this might work even better now.

mikepurvis 22d ago

I switched back to a desktop tower a few years ago as well. Notably, I don't use external displays with the work-issued laptop, but rather set up the laptop on a stand alongside the dual 1440p displays and have synergy for mouse and keyboard sharing.

Forgeties79 22d ago

Man I did exactly this with the PC I built last April, it was the best decision ever. I love having a dedicated space with a huge tower running everything. Two big monitors mounted to the back of the desk on arms, huge mechanical keyboard in the middle with a big ergonomic mouse pad and hand shoe mouse. It’s a whole “thing” when I go to the computer now. And frankly, it’s made it way more fun to use. It’s kind of like enjoying the process of listening to vinyl rather than pulling up a song on Spotify

dbtc 22d ago

As long as we keep going back-and-forth and buying stuff, trying to figure it out, the economy will be in good shape.

ed_elliott_asc 22d ago

You don’t need to spend all that money to get your mojo back, make the changes that you would make I.e. leave the MacBook on your desk and see if life improves.