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The art of arbitrarily redefining existing terms will never die out.
by zombot 23d ago
The art of arbitrarily redefining existing terms will never die out.
- coldtea 23d agoIt's the art of understanding terms have different meanings based on context and use, not one based on some definition handed down by the Gods that's applicable everywhere, that we should not let die out.
- ivan_gammel 23d agoNo, sorry, this is not the case. :) Not every popular idea has a free pass on this ground, especially not if it was created by a propaganda machine.
- kakacik 23d agoNot its about using correct words with specific meanings instead of vague terms that at the end have incorrect claims, even you had to resort to that to get your point across. 'Humans are horrible', oh no I meant only that subset of 3 individuals, you should understand my context... thats weak excuse to be polite.
- IAmBroom 23d agoContext in this case is derived by the arcane trick of RTFA.
- OroPla 23d agoI agree that it is incredibly stupid to call something from 1870 "modern". The word modern has a a clear meaning of "just now" / "contemporary". Not two hundred years ago. It shouldn't be attached to anything that can age out of this meaning.
- Garlef 23d agoThe word has not only one but several clear meanings: > In the context of art history, modernity (Fr. modernité) has a more limited sense, modern art covering the period of c. 1860–1970. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernity
- TheOtherHobbes 23d agoThe more relevant term is Modernism, which was a wave of anti-realist abstraction in the arts and sciences. It's more than a century old now. "Modern art" in the 1950s/60s post-war sense means extreme abstraction with no realism at all. Ironically abstraction can work in two directions - evocative messes like Pollock, or clean geometry and abstract functionalism in design and architecture. The CIA liked the former in art because it was bold, challenging, abrasive, and individualistic. And the artists were drunks and addicts who were easy to own. The other direction became domestic and corporate design.
- Gormo 15d ago> The CIA liked the former in art because it was bold, challenging, abrasive, and individualistic. And probably also due to it being a counterpoint to the constructivist styles that were being actively promoted by Soviet authorities at the time.
- OroPla 23d agoIf it was clear we wouldn't be having this conversation.
- IAmBroom 23d agoOn HN we could have an argument about the definition of "is". Clinton was just ahead of the curve.
- Garlef 23d agoI know. But I was trying to reach the person who left the parent comment. And hitting them with a phrasing that is directly poststructuralist seemed to be the wrong approach since they appear to operate in a structuralist framing.
- coldtea 23d agoIt is clear, and millions of people have been using it in the way the TFA uses it, just as historians of art has used other definitions. What it is not is obvious to derive from first principles ("says modern, so much mean current") or stuck to a single definition ("but historians call any art after the middle ages Modern"). But it is still trivial to pick the context in either use, and trivial for someone to read at least 1 paragraph about the "CIA psy-op" claim, whether it's true or not, and figure what it means by modern art there (it doesn't mean Van Gogh or Monet). People just want to comment without bothering.
- Cordiali 23d agoMeanwhile historians are out there, regarding things from 500 years ago as modern.
- OroPla 21d agoThis doesn't change the meaning of the word modern, though. It just uses a different scale. The same way the Moon is "right next to" the Earth. However, when you tie the word "new" or in this case "modern" to a time period that was over a hundred years ago you are just setting yourself up for failure and have to make do with calling things "after new" or in this case "post modern". But then where will this end? What was wrong with calling periods proper names like Renaissance, Baroque and Romantic?
- Gormo 15d ago> What was wrong with calling periods proper names like Renaissance, Baroque and Romantic? Eras only get these proper names long after they're over. To people living during those eras, they were just "now".
- mapt 23d agoThis is a rich thing to say about the term "Modern", which is basically baked in with an expiration date.
- inigyou 23d agoModern C++ means C++ from 2011 btw
- akhosravian 23d agoActually some say “modern C++” dates to 19th century Europe. Ada Lovelace provided some of the earliest examples of undefined behavior that C++ programmers still love talking about to this day.
- huurtehoog 23d agoCognition is naming thing and counting things. Or as Aristotle would say, start with definitions. I really do not get arguing about semantics. It is all arbitrary. You need to agree on what is meant to even intend on having a conversation.
- 1659447091 22d agoThey arent redefining terms. They are pointing out that "modern art" can refer to "modern art" from the 1890s or it can refer to "modern art" from the 1940s, because both being "modern art". There is a language comprehension issue in this thread. At no point does the title imply its invention, it does however imply it is about the CIA and it's a huge tell identifying the injection of personal bias into meaning through either lazy reading, internal personal grievances, or a lost in translation misunderstanding. "modern art" is of larger scope than CIA; thus "CIA" is the stronger relevant subject matter which narrows the secondary subject and should be understood/read as "modern art in the CIA era" or " CIA era modern art". The "era" is derived by applying "CIA" to "modern art". This is probably where the mis-read/mis-translation happened. Since "era" is not explicit, modern art narrowed to all things within CIA scope could imply the CIA had a department full of alternative lifestyle bohemian spys creating and spreading modern art (not far off though, they commissioned works and funded related entities). A basic knowing of the CIA would dismiss this as absurd. However, a translation error happening here can turn "modern art created by the CIA" into "modern art invented by the CIA".
- DuperPower 22d agoyea and psyops use that art, its not a modern art