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On the less extreme end, Europe also has much higher rates of catching criminals and punishes then less. I understand the US is really the outlier. I read an i

On the less extreme end, Europe also has much higher rates of catching criminals and punishes then less. I understand the US is really the outlier. I read an interesting article that laid out how that's ultimately rooted in what level of government pays for what. It's easier for local politicians to call for harsher punishment because prisons are run by state or federal but police is funded locally.

vintermann 23d ago
I don't think the police is underfunded in the US though?
- zhivota 23d ago
  It simultaneously is and isn't. It's overfunded on things that don't matter for the problem at hand - traffic enforcement using full fledged officers in expensive vehicles, militarized SWAT teams, regulations requiring huge officer presence at all events, etc. But it's underfunded on what would change things for the better - foot patrols, investigation, etc. This is why you can get pulled over for a broken taillight in the US and have 3 police cars behind you complete with a K9 unit, but if that same car gets stolen, you'll probably get asked to make a report and never hear a peep from the police again.
  - OroPla 22d ago
    Reminds me of a story I read recently where they deployed a SWAT team to deliver a letter. I thought it must have been fake, but maybe not.. (It was news because the old building's stairs couldn't support the weight of the SWAT team and collapsed, injuring many of them.)
- ajmurmann 22d ago
  Look at officers per 100k: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... France has 422, Germany 349, Italy 456, US 242. There are countries that are super safe like Japan and Singapore with only 255 and 174 but I think it's safe to say that the US probably is better compared to France here. China also has only 258 but I think they make up for it through surveillance which isn't welcome in the US. The US also doesn't train police officers well compared to most European countries. In the US it takes just a few months to become a police officer. In Germany it takes years. Very good conversation on the general topic: https://youtu.be/6gMwh3jkWy0?is=MiTI5N1wdEpd_izP https://youtu.be/6gMwh3jkWy0?is=MiTI5N1wdEpd_izP

vintermann 23d ago

I don't think the police is underfunded in the US though?

zhivota 23d ago
It simultaneously is and isn't. It's overfunded on things that don't matter for the problem at hand - traffic enforcement using full fledged officers in expensive vehicles, militarized SWAT teams, regulations requiring huge officer presence at all events, etc. But it's underfunded on what would change things for the better - foot patrols, investigation, etc. This is why you can get pulled over for a broken taillight in the US and have 3 police cars behind you complete with a K9 unit, but if that same car gets stolen, you'll probably get asked to make a report and never hear a peep from the police again.
- OroPla 22d ago
  Reminds me of a story I read recently where they deployed a SWAT team to deliver a letter. I thought it must have been fake, but maybe not.. (It was news because the old building's stairs couldn't support the weight of the SWAT team and collapsed, injuring many of them.)
ajmurmann 22d ago
Look at officers per 100k: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... France has 422, Germany 349, Italy 456, US 242. There are countries that are super safe like Japan and Singapore with only 255 and 174 but I think it's safe to say that the US probably is better compared to France here. China also has only 258 but I think they make up for it through surveillance which isn't welcome in the US. The US also doesn't train police officers well compared to most European countries. In the US it takes just a few months to become a police officer. In Germany it takes years. Very good conversation on the general topic: https://youtu.be/6gMwh3jkWy0?is=MiTI5N1wdEpd_izP https://youtu.be/6gMwh3jkWy0?is=MiTI5N1wdEpd_izP