11 ms·

I think GP was speaking hyperbolically, because most new features hit Element/Synapse first and other clients lag behind implementing them. If you care about mo

by opan 23d ago

I think GP was speaking hyperbolically, because most new features hit Element/Synapse first and other clients lag behind implementing them. If you care about more than the basics working, it's kind of just the illusion of choice.

ezst 23d ago
Probably, and also from the fact that although there's a plethora of matrix clients and servers on paper, none is as feature complete (or feature-complete to the point of usefulness, I might say) as "the one". XMPP has about one decent-to-great client per platform and multiple fully compatible and interoperable server implementations, and every single one of them is by different groups.
- JadedBlueEyes 23d ago
  I mean for alternative servers, 10% of people use Continuwuity and it looks pretty spec-complete [0] and more than enough to be useful. [0]: https://forgejo.ellis.link/continuwuation/continuwuity/issues/880 https://forgejo.ellis.link/continuwuation/continuwuity/issue...
  - ezst 23d ago
    Last I checked (couple years ago?) it was ill-advised to use anything but Synapse, because: - you would be at the mercy of very real and frequent federation problems (Matrix being so implementation-dependent and centred around Synapse ; like, the json serialization format is better described as "whatever order and structure python's stdlib is doing"¹) - there is no non-destructive way back to another server (the open federation would just reject you, and you would have to "start anew"). Interestingly, that last one pushed some servers over the fence and into XMPP, and they could then switch implementations (e.g. from prosody to ejabberd) effortlessly. ¹: https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07#:~:text=matrix%20homeservers%20written%20in%20different%20languages%20have%20json%20interoperability%20issues https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07#:~:text=matrix%20hom...
    - tcfhgj 22d ago
      1) solved by canonical Json many years ago, see https://spec.matrix.org/v1.19/appendices/#canonical-json https://spec.matrix.org/v1.19/appendices/#canonical-json (goes back to at least matrix 1.1 which was released 2021) 2) Why would open federation reject you? Given you don't throw away your private key
    - JadedBlueEyes 22d ago
      1) That hasn't been a problem for at least half a decade. 2) What do you even mean? I've literally deleted my entire database and then spun up a new server on the same domain before, it does not matter, other servers do not care! The worst that could happen is messages from the original server can no longer be verified as valid - and even that isn't a problem in practice.
tcfhgj 23d ago
Define what you think are more than the basics?
- opan 16d ago
  Spaces, voice and video calls, custom emoji or stickers. Basically the stuff people coming from Discord are used to but the people coming from IRC/XMPP aren't used to.

by opan 23d ago

ezst 23d ago

Probably, and also from the fact that although there's a plethora of matrix clients and servers on paper, none is as feature complete (or feature-complete to the point of usefulness, I might say) as "the one". XMPP has about one decent-to-great client per platform and multiple fully compatible and interoperable server implementations, and every single one of them is by different groups.

JadedBlueEyes 23d ago
I mean for alternative servers, 10% of people use Continuwuity and it looks pretty spec-complete [0] and more than enough to be useful. [0]: https://forgejo.ellis.link/continuwuation/continuwuity/issues/880 https://forgejo.ellis.link/continuwuation/continuwuity/issue...
- ezst 23d ago
  Last I checked (couple years ago?) it was ill-advised to use anything but Synapse, because: - you would be at the mercy of very real and frequent federation problems (Matrix being so implementation-dependent and centred around Synapse ; like, the json serialization format is better described as "whatever order and structure python's stdlib is doing"¹) - there is no non-destructive way back to another server (the open federation would just reject you, and you would have to "start anew"). Interestingly, that last one pushed some servers over the fence and into XMPP, and they could then switch implementations (e.g. from prosody to ejabberd) effortlessly. ¹: https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07#:~:text=matrix%20homeservers%20written%20in%20different%20languages%20have%20json%20interoperability%20issues https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07#:~:text=matrix%20hom...
  - tcfhgj 22d ago
    1) solved by canonical Json many years ago, see https://spec.matrix.org/v1.19/appendices/#canonical-json https://spec.matrix.org/v1.19/appendices/#canonical-json (goes back to at least matrix 1.1 which was released 2021) 2) Why would open federation reject you? Given you don't throw away your private key
  - JadedBlueEyes 22d ago
    1) That hasn't been a problem for at least half a decade. 2) What do you even mean? I've literally deleted my entire database and then spun up a new server on the same domain before, it does not matter, other servers do not care! The worst that could happen is messages from the original server can no longer be verified as valid - and even that isn't a problem in practice.

tcfhgj 23d ago

Define what you think are more than the basics?

opan 16d ago
Spaces, voice and video calls, custom emoji or stickers. Basically the stuff people coming from Discord are used to but the people coming from IRC/XMPP aren't used to.