>>> I dislike engineers in general because most of them think like this. they have gone all in on embracing alienation in the marxist sense from their own work

>>> I dislike engineers in general because most of them think like this. they have gone all in on embracing alienation in the marxist sense from their own work product and dont understand people who feel a sense of personal craft and ownership in something. What? This is a very confusing statement... The word engineer does not refer to only software engineers. And even if it did, I've never met an engineer who thought of their professional work as art. Are you sure you dislike engineers in general? 'Cause that's a pretty big group you just generalized about. Have you not heard the classic joke? The optimist sees the glass as half-full. The pessimist: half-empty. The engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. This is the essence of engineering - solving problems safely, efficiently and economically. Many engineers are craftspeople and artists. What makes you think they can't separate their professional duties from their other interests?