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As someone whose built megabyte to petabyte scale system of records, "yah but" to nits is annoying. You've solved it all yourself in your thought exercise thoug

As someone whose built megabyte to petabyte scale system of records, "yah but" to nits is annoying. You've solved it all yourself in your thought exercise though. Saying "the world has moved on", eh, not in any sense of the legal world, no. There's entire ecosystems around syslog alone to satisfy everything, otel is a baby fart feature and reliability and attestable wise

deleted 23d ago
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otterley 23d ago
There’s no need to be rude and dismissive. Knock it off. You’re coming across as unnecessarily provocative and defensive. If you truly believe OTel is a “baby fart,” I’d recommend you go to SRECon, KubeCon, and other similar conferences and make your opinion loudly known. Nobody talks about syslog there, and these are big and well-respected companies represented there. Syslog is mature and battle tested for what it is: schlepping unstructured plaintext logs from one place to another. It’s not really purpose-built to meet the needs of a full-fledged observability solution, though, of which logs are but a component.
- skullone 23d ago
  syslog isn't an observability system, you're right. It's just a transport. It doesn't really care what it transports either, delimeted, positional, structured - it'll transport it all. It'll do it durably, accurately and reliable with very modest systems at millions of messages a second. The goal is to get it to the right place for the observability systems, and to feed them reliably. We keep local logs for 24 hours, a sideline feed to S3, they then get sent to multiple multiple systems for tracing and legal and audits and siem etc etc. It's not trying to be a foglight or datadog, it just helps enable them. Apologies for being argumentative, but I come into orgs who make these generalizations, and I discover (or they engage me) because they've missed critical logging paths and face legal and compliance or intrusions and want to build more robust logging. Otel is certainly part of it, but writing off syslog because of configuration options that aren't durable etc, when that hasn't been the baseline in decades - well, it keeps me employed at a high salary because I see this often

deleted 23d ago

[deleted]

otterley 23d ago

There’s no need to be rude and dismissive. Knock it off. You’re coming across as unnecessarily provocative and defensive. If you truly believe OTel is a “baby fart,” I’d recommend you go to SRECon, KubeCon, and other similar conferences and make your opinion loudly known. Nobody talks about syslog there, and these are big and well-respected companies represented there. Syslog is mature and battle tested for what it is: schlepping unstructured plaintext logs from one place to another. It’s not really purpose-built to meet the needs of a full-fledged observability solution, though, of which logs are but a component.

skullone 23d ago
syslog isn't an observability system, you're right. It's just a transport. It doesn't really care what it transports either, delimeted, positional, structured - it'll transport it all. It'll do it durably, accurately and reliable with very modest systems at millions of messages a second. The goal is to get it to the right place for the observability systems, and to feed them reliably. We keep local logs for 24 hours, a sideline feed to S3, they then get sent to multiple multiple systems for tracing and legal and audits and siem etc etc. It's not trying to be a foglight or datadog, it just helps enable them. Apologies for being argumentative, but I come into orgs who make these generalizations, and I discover (or they engage me) because they've missed critical logging paths and face legal and compliance or intrusions and want to build more robust logging. Otel is certainly part of it, but writing off syslog because of configuration options that aren't durable etc, when that hasn't been the baseline in decades - well, it keeps me employed at a high salary because I see this often