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There has been some research on spearmint suggesting anti-androgen effects in PCOS, which is a bit unexpected to me as I wouldn't expect mint-family herbs to ha

There has been some research on spearmint suggesting anti-androgen effects in PCOS, which is a bit unexpected to me as I wouldn't expect mint-family herbs to have much hormone modulating effect at all. I would imagine there to be similarities in profile between spearmint and peppermint so perhaps a related mechanism is involved, although I would probably expect the opposite outcome as a naive layperson. But I haven't closely evaluated the paper nor do I know whether there's been much else suggesting this It is important to remember that herbs are difficult to study in this setting compared with isolated compounds -- likely because their pharmacological and chemical compositions are sensitive to many factors: hour and season of harvest, form consumed (raw powder, alcohol extract, cold water infusion, fat emulsion, hot water infusion, combustion, pyrolysis, essential oil), part consumed (leaf, root, flower, seed), among staggeringly many others. Anyone with experience consuming cannabis or coffee can probably testify to the above Not to mention that the pharmacologically active compounds in many plants are far from being comprehensively understood, let alone their interactions and dynamics This isn't to say that every claim about herbs is to be taken seriously. My point here is more that there is no good reason to dismiss the herb itself as a cause yet simply because it's an herb and a fairly mundane one at that. There are easy examples of herbs which have pronounced physiological effects, used for recreation, performance enhancement, as literal poison, to induce labor, to thin the blood -- among others. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19585478/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19585478/

mrob 23d ago
>I wouldn't expect mint-family herbs to have much hormone modulating effect at all Mints are closely related to pennyroyal (Mentha pulegium), which was traditionally (and dangerously because of toxicity) used as an abortifacient. Its mechanism of action is still unknown, so hormone modulating effects seem plausible to me.
- samudrijan 23d ago
  Sit and drink pennyroyal tea, I’m anemic royalty.
- rshm 23d ago
  Also used as lactation reducing herb.
- vector_spaces 23d ago
  By "mints" I meant the family lamiaceae, so pretty broadly which contains sages, rosemaries, basils, teak, verbena, and in hindsight of course contains examples like this which straddle medicine (depending on dosage and circumstances -- I'm not advocating it be used as such) and poison. Even if just restricting to the genus mentha apparently. Anyway good call
r0ze-at-hn 23d ago
So spearmint is not peppermint. Peppermint (mentha pipereta in this study) inhibits CYP3A4 and CYP1A2. CYP1A2 is in the liver and if that is inhibited then estrogen will route down the CYP1B1 path so the ratio of the two metabolites 2-OHE1 v.s 4-OHE1 would be altered. For the PCOS (renamed to PMOS btw) if they start with elevated 2-OHE1 after the peppermint this could result in improve estrogen signaling because the now raised 4-OHE1 has much higher affinity than the 2-OHE1 for ESR1 (Era). ESR1 in particular is known for lowering blood pressure. This particular path isn't that crazy, but it would only be for a subset of folk. From the study there is something simpler: menthol acts as a natural calcium-channel blocker, triggering vasodilation to reduce blood pressure.
- ErroneousBosh 23d ago
  Fuck. This is what I sound like when I talk about analogue electronics, isn't it? Thing is I know I could look all those terms up and learn enough to be dangerous in a subject you're clearly very good at.
- AnthonBerg 23d ago
  Menthol is wild. Lightly edited from Wikipedia: "Menthol's [agonism of] the cold-sensitive Transient Receptor Potential cation channel subfamily M (melastatin) member 8 or TRPM8 receptors is responsible for the well-known cooling sensation it provokes. Menthol's analgesic properties are mediated through a selective activation of κ-opioid receptors. Menthol blocks calcium channels and voltage-sensitive sodium channels, reducing neural activity that may stimulate muscles. Some studies show that menthol acts as a GABAᴀ receptor positive allosteric modulator and increases GABAergic transmission in PAG neurons." …and! Check this out: "Menthol has anesthetic properties similar to though less potent than propofol, interacting with the same sites on the GABAᴀ receptor." Propofol. PROPOFOL. The -ol in propofol is the -ol in menthol, haha. "Menthol may also enhance the activity of glycine receptors and negatively modulate 5-HT3 receptors and nAChRs." Aaaaand: "Menthol also lowers blood pressure and antagonizes vasoconstriction through TRPM8 activation."
  - arthurptj 23d ago

mrob 23d ago

>I wouldn't expect mint-family herbs to have much hormone modulating effect at all Mints are closely related to pennyroyal (Mentha pulegium), which was traditionally (and dangerously because of toxicity) used as an abortifacient. Its mechanism of action is still unknown, so hormone modulating effects seem plausible to me.

samudrijan 23d ago
Sit and drink pennyroyal tea, I’m anemic royalty.
rshm 23d ago
Also used as lactation reducing herb.
vector_spaces 23d ago
By "mints" I meant the family lamiaceae, so pretty broadly which contains sages, rosemaries, basils, teak, verbena, and in hindsight of course contains examples like this which straddle medicine (depending on dosage and circumstances -- I'm not advocating it be used as such) and poison. Even if just restricting to the genus mentha apparently. Anyway good call

r0ze-at-hn 23d ago

So spearmint is not peppermint. Peppermint (mentha pipereta in this study) inhibits CYP3A4 and CYP1A2. CYP1A2 is in the liver and if that is inhibited then estrogen will route down the CYP1B1 path so the ratio of the two metabolites 2-OHE1 v.s 4-OHE1 would be altered. For the PCOS (renamed to PMOS btw) if they start with elevated 2-OHE1 after the peppermint this could result in improve estrogen signaling because the now raised 4-OHE1 has much higher affinity than the 2-OHE1 for ESR1 (Era). ESR1 in particular is known for lowering blood pressure. This particular path isn't that crazy, but it would only be for a subset of folk. From the study there is something simpler: menthol acts as a natural calcium-channel blocker, triggering vasodilation to reduce blood pressure.

ErroneousBosh 23d ago
Fuck. This is what I sound like when I talk about analogue electronics, isn't it? Thing is I know I could look all those terms up and learn enough to be dangerous in a subject you're clearly very good at.
AnthonBerg 23d ago
Menthol is wild. Lightly edited from Wikipedia: "Menthol's [agonism of] the cold-sensitive Transient Receptor Potential cation channel subfamily M (melastatin) member 8 or TRPM8 receptors is responsible for the well-known cooling sensation it provokes. Menthol's analgesic properties are mediated through a selective activation of κ-opioid receptors. Menthol blocks calcium channels and voltage-sensitive sodium channels, reducing neural activity that may stimulate muscles. Some studies show that menthol acts as a GABAᴀ receptor positive allosteric modulator and increases GABAergic transmission in PAG neurons." …and! Check this out: "Menthol has anesthetic properties similar to though less potent than propofol, interacting with the same sites on the GABAᴀ receptor." Propofol. PROPOFOL. The -ol in propofol is the -ol in menthol, haha. "Menthol may also enhance the activity of glycine receptors and negatively modulate 5-HT3 receptors and nAChRs." Aaaaand: "Menthol also lowers blood pressure and antagonizes vasoconstriction through TRPM8 activation."
- arthurptj 23d ago