7 ms·

Yes this is their reasoning, it doesn't mean we shouldn't hate the players and the game alike

bdelmas 23d ago
It’s not the players we should hate but the ones who make the rules of the game. Specifically not the ones who make the rules for the greater good but for themselves.
- mylies43 23d ago
  So, the players?
  - bdelmas 22d ago
    No rule makers. Players are not the one making the rules of a game. They just play it.
merelydev 23d ago
That is like hating a hacker who hacks into your vulnerable server that is outdated and allows ssh password login. If there is vulnerabilities in the system someone will eventually exploit them, sure not you or me but there is always someone out there that will.
- toomanyrichies 23d ago
  That same hacker can choose to responsibly disclose the vulnerability through the proper channels, or take advantage of it to benefit themselves at the expense of others. Which one they choose objectively determines the quality of person they are.
  - merelydev 23d ago
    That is how we find ourselves in this mess, we design systems thinking only of everything that can go right and not what can go wrong.
    - account42 22d ago
      Protecting yourself from every possibility where things can go wrong is not something anyone can afford.
- latexr 23d ago
  Let’s bring your example into the physical world: “That is like hating a thief who robs your home which has an old lock and a window you forgot open. If there is an open window in the house someone will eventually climb through it, sure not you or me but there is always someone out there that will.” It is perfectly reasonable to hate the person who robbed your house or hacked your server. “If that someone hadn’t, another someone would” is in no way a defence. It is not OK to actively harm someone just because they didn’t protect themselves.
  - merelydev 23d ago
    Yes. My point is that until you learn to lock your door, thief will enter and steal your property. You can hate them all you want, that wont change the facts or magically lock your door.
    - account42 22d ago
      I prefer to live somewhere where I can be relatively sure that forgetting to close my windows doesn't get me robbed. That means punishing those who take advantage of open windows. Turns out deterrence can be quite effective.
    - Timon3 22d ago
      Unfortunately the thief has introduced legislation that bans any better locks, and they have a magical veto that allows them to strike down any attempts at changing said laws. Should I still not hate the thief?
- account42 22d ago
  Security is always about tradeoffs and in a functioning society you don't need to have perfect security (and pay the extreme cost required for it) because we do indeed put blame on individuals that abuse the system.

It’s not the players we should hate but the ones who make the rules of the game. Specifically not the ones who make the rules for the greater good but for themselves.

mylies43 23d ago
So, the players?
- bdelmas 22d ago
  No rule makers. Players are not the one making the rules of a game. They just play it.

merelydev 23d ago

That is like hating a hacker who hacks into your vulnerable server that is outdated and allows ssh password login. If there is vulnerabilities in the system someone will eventually exploit them, sure not you or me but there is always someone out there that will.

toomanyrichies 23d ago
That same hacker can choose to responsibly disclose the vulnerability through the proper channels, or take advantage of it to benefit themselves at the expense of others. Which one they choose objectively determines the quality of person they are.
- merelydev 23d ago
  That is how we find ourselves in this mess, we design systems thinking only of everything that can go right and not what can go wrong.
  - account42 22d ago
    Protecting yourself from every possibility where things can go wrong is not something anyone can afford.
latexr 23d ago
Let’s bring your example into the physical world: “That is like hating a thief who robs your home which has an old lock and a window you forgot open. If there is an open window in the house someone will eventually climb through it, sure not you or me but there is always someone out there that will.” It is perfectly reasonable to hate the person who robbed your house or hacked your server. “If that someone hadn’t, another someone would” is in no way a defence. It is not OK to actively harm someone just because they didn’t protect themselves.
- merelydev 23d ago
  Yes. My point is that until you learn to lock your door, thief will enter and steal your property. You can hate them all you want, that wont change the facts or magically lock your door.
  - account42 22d ago
    I prefer to live somewhere where I can be relatively sure that forgetting to close my windows doesn't get me robbed. That means punishing those who take advantage of open windows. Turns out deterrence can be quite effective.
  - Timon3 22d ago
    Unfortunately the thief has introduced legislation that bans any better locks, and they have a magical veto that allows them to strike down any attempts at changing said laws. Should I still not hate the thief?
account42 22d ago
Security is always about tradeoffs and in a functioning society you don't need to have perfect security (and pay the extreme cost required for it) because we do indeed put blame on individuals that abuse the system.