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Would it help to add a surface behind the side mirrors so that it's more aerodynamic? I'm thinking something that stretches from the car body to the side mirror

Would it help to add a surface behind the side mirrors so that it's more aerodynamic? I'm thinking something that stretches from the car body to the side mirrors. Or could the side mirrors could be shaped like an airplane's wing so that the air displaces nicely? It'd look weird, but I'd rather have the fuel efficiency.

eru 24d ago
You could replace the mirrors with tiny cameras and screens inside the car, perhaps. But not sure that would be legal.
- b112 24d ago
  But this is part of the problem. A mirror just works, or is very visibly broken if not. We want to have less electronic stuff in cars, not more. So I hope this isn't legal.
  - cicko 24d ago
    Sadly, it is (in the EU, at least). One just passed me on the highway.
  - ssl-3 24d ago
    > We want to have less electronic stuff in cars, not more. I want better cars. That doesn't necessarily mean that I want less-electronic cars. I'm reminded of how far we've come every time I go out on a cold wintry morning and the electric starter cranks the electronically fuel-injected engine for me, and the whole thing comes to life with utterly-perfect reliability. I can then select a gear and proceed. No particular warm-up period is required; it's running smoothly straight-away. The electronically-controlled transmission shifts smoothly. The heated seats quickly warm my tuches while the automatic climate control seeks to warm the cabin and maintain a stable temperature without any interaction on my part. No messing with an ignition retard, or a manual choke. No need to prime the engine by giving it a few turns with the ignition switched off. There's no hand crank with which to break a jaw[1]. It's pretty great, I think. But there's still plenty of examples remaining of the 15 million Model Ts that Ford built, for those who really seek to limit the electronics to almost-nothing. (And steam cars, too! We must not forget the simplicity of the Carnot cycle, nor of the carbide lamp!) [1]: https://www.hemmings.com/stories/the-accident-that-started-it-all/ https://www.hemmings.com/stories/the-accident-that-started-i...
    - eru 24d ago
      Agreed. If you watch old American sitcoms one of the guys, typically a dad, will always be fiddling with his car and tune and maintain it. That was a stereotype for a reason.
      - ssl-3 23d ago
        Some part of me is richly satisfied in knowing that I will never have to spend another moment troubleshooting performance and economy issues with a Rochester Quadrajet 4-barrel carb and the combination vacuum/mechanical spark advance of GM's HEI distributor. I think we're definitely in a better place these days. And I'll be thinking of this, and all of the money that I didn't dump down the throat of a carburated engine, the next time I get out my special bendy-ratchet (that articulates in two different places) and single-purpose crowsfoot socket to change an O2 sensor that has finally gone wonky after hundreds of thousands of miles. :)
- fxtentacle 24d ago
  That’s what big trucks use. Because you can use wide angle cameras and actually see more.
  - eru 24d ago
    These days you could probably even stitch together images from multiple cameras?
    - arlcode 24d ago
      That's also what trucks already do to eliminate dead angles and help the driver manoeuver in tight spaces
- jerlam 24d ago
  The tiny cameras show up a lot in concept cars, but illegal to have in the US. They've been trying to change the law for a while: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/a28120245/car-side-mirror-camera-design/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/a28120245/car-... (2019)
- yourusername 24d ago
  Audi e-tron has had this as a option for a number of years. But replacing mirrors with screen has a downside: it ruins your depth perception. Instead of focussing 30-100 meters away through the mirror you have to focus on a screen 0.5 meters away. Digital mirrors are very tiring for your eyes compared to mirrors.
- a96 24d ago
  Honda E is a production car with virtual mirrors. I think they're an option on Audi E-tron (R8? GT?) and Lexus ES.
  - robotmay 24d ago
    Yeah I test drove a Honda E. I don't know why but they somehow used a webcam from a 1999 laptop for the cameras. It was a shame as the interior of that car is gorgeous, but the range is absolutely appalling and those mirrors are awful.
frollogaston 24d ago
Sports car side mirrors are a deeper teardrop shape probably for this reason
dmurray 24d ago
How about a mirror that is only there when you need it? The car could detect from a combination of your eye movement and from its own monitoring of the road behind when you are likely to check the mirror, and pop it out then. This sounds like a lot of overengineering - you need reliable low latency eye movement detection and a motor mechanism that can react that fast but withstand the air forces at highway speeds. Just to deliver a worse UI - imagine the complaints about how Tesla doesn't detect my eyes unless I look just right. But 6% fuel usage sounds like an enormous saving that would be worth some of your complexity budget.

eru 24d ago

You could replace the mirrors with tiny cameras and screens inside the car, perhaps. But not sure that would be legal.

b112 24d ago
But this is part of the problem. A mirror just works, or is very visibly broken if not. We want to have less electronic stuff in cars, not more. So I hope this isn't legal.
- cicko 24d ago
  Sadly, it is (in the EU, at least). One just passed me on the highway.
- ssl-3 24d ago
  > We want to have less electronic stuff in cars, not more. I want better cars. That doesn't necessarily mean that I want less-electronic cars. I'm reminded of how far we've come every time I go out on a cold wintry morning and the electric starter cranks the electronically fuel-injected engine for me, and the whole thing comes to life with utterly-perfect reliability. I can then select a gear and proceed. No particular warm-up period is required; it's running smoothly straight-away. The electronically-controlled transmission shifts smoothly. The heated seats quickly warm my tuches while the automatic climate control seeks to warm the cabin and maintain a stable temperature without any interaction on my part. No messing with an ignition retard, or a manual choke. No need to prime the engine by giving it a few turns with the ignition switched off. There's no hand crank with which to break a jaw[1]. It's pretty great, I think. But there's still plenty of examples remaining of the 15 million Model Ts that Ford built, for those who really seek to limit the electronics to almost-nothing. (And steam cars, too! We must not forget the simplicity of the Carnot cycle, nor of the carbide lamp!) [1]: https://www.hemmings.com/stories/the-accident-that-started-it-all/ https://www.hemmings.com/stories/the-accident-that-started-i...
  - eru 24d ago
    Agreed. If you watch old American sitcoms one of the guys, typically a dad, will always be fiddling with his car and tune and maintain it. That was a stereotype for a reason.
    - ssl-3 23d ago
      Some part of me is richly satisfied in knowing that I will never have to spend another moment troubleshooting performance and economy issues with a Rochester Quadrajet 4-barrel carb and the combination vacuum/mechanical spark advance of GM's HEI distributor. I think we're definitely in a better place these days. And I'll be thinking of this, and all of the money that I didn't dump down the throat of a carburated engine, the next time I get out my special bendy-ratchet (that articulates in two different places) and single-purpose crowsfoot socket to change an O2 sensor that has finally gone wonky after hundreds of thousands of miles. :)
fxtentacle 24d ago
That’s what big trucks use. Because you can use wide angle cameras and actually see more.
- eru 24d ago
  These days you could probably even stitch together images from multiple cameras?
  - arlcode 24d ago
    That's also what trucks already do to eliminate dead angles and help the driver manoeuver in tight spaces
jerlam 24d ago
The tiny cameras show up a lot in concept cars, but illegal to have in the US. They've been trying to change the law for a while: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/a28120245/car-side-mirror-camera-design/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/a28120245/car-... (2019)
yourusername 24d ago
Audi e-tron has had this as a option for a number of years. But replacing mirrors with screen has a downside: it ruins your depth perception. Instead of focussing 30-100 meters away through the mirror you have to focus on a screen 0.5 meters away. Digital mirrors are very tiring for your eyes compared to mirrors.
a96 24d ago
Honda E is a production car with virtual mirrors. I think they're an option on Audi E-tron (R8? GT?) and Lexus ES.
- robotmay 24d ago
  Yeah I test drove a Honda E. I don't know why but they somehow used a webcam from a 1999 laptop for the cameras. It was a shame as the interior of that car is gorgeous, but the range is absolutely appalling and those mirrors are awful.

frollogaston 24d ago

Sports car side mirrors are a deeper teardrop shape probably for this reason

dmurray 24d ago

How about a mirror that is only there when you need it? The car could detect from a combination of your eye movement and from its own monitoring of the road behind when you are likely to check the mirror, and pop it out then. This sounds like a lot of overengineering - you need reliable low latency eye movement detection and a motor mechanism that can react that fast but withstand the air forces at highway speeds. Just to deliver a worse UI - imagine the complaints about how Tesla doesn't detect my eyes unless I look just right. But 6% fuel usage sounds like an enormous saving that would be worth some of your complexity budget.