8 ms·

That Athlon die did stick out in terms of assembly "danger level". But for me the rest of the assembly was so much easier back then. 25 years ago I never had t

by close04 24d ago

That Athlon die did stick out in terms of assembly "danger level". But for me the rest of the assembly was so much easier back then. 25 years ago I never had to wonder if my GPU or CPU cooler will fit the case, clear the RAM, or the HDD cage, if I have something to prop the GPU against so it doesn't sag, if the PSU power cables are fine or I need some adapter and if the adapter can cause a fire if not installed perfectly, if I can access the SSD slot after installing the GPU. That's before having the components in hand. Installation brings new challenges, LGA sockets are fragile and generally unrepairable, the need for massive coolers leaves little room for maneuver in there, I need to replace the backplate and the general installation procedure is a lot more involved, many of the good thermal pastes are a pain to apply, and so on. The BIOS/UEFI is a jungle now but one you have to navigate to avoid issues introduced by manufacturers pushing setting to the limit in the default profile.

NikolaNovak 24d ago
It's possible I'm just less adventurous now. Nvme drives just plug in on mobo and take zero space. I don't have to navigate and bend and fit massive ribbon AND power cables from one end of case to another. 3-4 Nvme fit onto mobo basically invisibly. Want more - cheap easy riser card. 3-4 3.5" PATA drives with ribbon AND power were just fun times / exercises in masochism! And of course different types of ribbon cables, and pins on hard drive begging to be bent, and master / slave hardware settings, and some cables could burn things if plugged in the wrong way around and you had to pay attention that red line on cable aligned with tiny pin 1 on drive. And after a while or if you bend it too much that ribbon cable will give you fun intermittent errors. Power supplies came with random assortment of built in cables you had to tuck whether you used them or nit. Now you pick and plug in cables you need. Separate audio card and modem and network card, so definitely had to worry if I had enough Isa slots etc. Now mobo does it all. Maybe even a worthwhile integrated gpu - my 8845hs with 780m does ridiculous amount of gaming. Compared to a 2d card PLUS a 3d card and pass through cables between them - did we forget about those?? :-) Absolutely did have to worry if my after market cpu cooler will fit back then. Perhaps with stock coolers ones we didn't but I think same is case today. And I'm just not ready to accept the argument that thermal paste or BIOS were somehow better in 2001 without some solid evidence :-).
- close04 23d ago
  Modern technology is great, don't get me wrong. But it does increase complexity and fragility, and pushes things closer to the limits. I didn't say the technology was better but that it was simpler. Simpler components, simpler assembly, fewer assembly concerns for equivalent builds, fewer places to get it wrong, especially fatally wrong. You don't have jumpers, you have confusing connectors (mPCIe/M.2/miniSATA differentiated by keying), you don't have a thick ribbon, you have a 3 slot graphics card blocking the SDD. Reaching the GPU PCIe retainer clip on most MoBos is a terrible experience with modern (massive) GPUs. Reconnecting the GPU power cable comes with renewed risk of meltdown. These aren't just esthetic issues (cables look bad, inflexible, hang around, etc.). Yes, pins bent if you were really careless, pulled cables sideways, etc. And you'd straighten them and keep going, even with CPUs. They were more resilient. A bent LGA socket pin today probably kills your motherboard, and might take the CPU with it. Signal integrity and high currents don't leave room to (literally) wiggle. > Absolutely did have to worry if my after market cpu cooler will fit back then Weird, here [0] is a review of coolers of the time, I cannot remember a single time this was a concern, maybe short of a few fancier coolers in very special tiny cases. Today many cases put this on the label, gives away that it's a challenge for many. > And I'm just not ready to accept the argument that thermal paste or BIOS were somehow better in 2001 without some solid evidence I didn't say better, they were simpler/easier. The BIOS of 25 years ago had a handful of settings. A modern UEFI config and the amount of settings exposed to the users is crazy. Worse yet, today the defaults are no longer guaranteed aimed at safe long term operation, they're pushing for good bench results. They come set with high power limits, boost levels, voltages, etc. and this will bite the user later in longevity and stability. As for the paste, reviews added a score for "ease of application", this sends a message. Liquid metals, many modern versions of classic pastes, PTM sheets, there are way more options that are a pain to apply or clean, and in exchange you get top performance. Because there are way more CPUs/GPUs that benefit or demand this. [0] https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Can-t-Touch-This-A-Comparison-of-46-CPU-Coolers,324-11.html https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Can-t-Touch-This-A-Comp...

by close04 24d ago

NikolaNovak 24d ago

It's possible I'm just less adventurous now. Nvme drives just plug in on mobo and take zero space. I don't have to navigate and bend and fit massive ribbon AND power cables from one end of case to another. 3-4 Nvme fit onto mobo basically invisibly. Want more - cheap easy riser card. 3-4 3.5" PATA drives with ribbon AND power were just fun times / exercises in masochism! And of course different types of ribbon cables, and pins on hard drive begging to be bent, and master / slave hardware settings, and some cables could burn things if plugged in the wrong way around and you had to pay attention that red line on cable aligned with tiny pin 1 on drive. And after a while or if you bend it too much that ribbon cable will give you fun intermittent errors. Power supplies came with random assortment of built in cables you had to tuck whether you used them or nit. Now you pick and plug in cables you need. Separate audio card and modem and network card, so definitely had to worry if I had enough Isa slots etc. Now mobo does it all. Maybe even a worthwhile integrated gpu - my 8845hs with 780m does ridiculous amount of gaming. Compared to a 2d card PLUS a 3d card and pass through cables between them - did we forget about those?? :-) Absolutely did have to worry if my after market cpu cooler will fit back then. Perhaps with stock coolers ones we didn't but I think same is case today. And I'm just not ready to accept the argument that thermal paste or BIOS were somehow better in 2001 without some solid evidence :-).

close04 23d ago
Modern technology is great, don't get me wrong. But it does increase complexity and fragility, and pushes things closer to the limits. I didn't say the technology was better but that it was simpler. Simpler components, simpler assembly, fewer assembly concerns for equivalent builds, fewer places to get it wrong, especially fatally wrong. You don't have jumpers, you have confusing connectors (mPCIe/M.2/miniSATA differentiated by keying), you don't have a thick ribbon, you have a 3 slot graphics card blocking the SDD. Reaching the GPU PCIe retainer clip on most MoBos is a terrible experience with modern (massive) GPUs. Reconnecting the GPU power cable comes with renewed risk of meltdown. These aren't just esthetic issues (cables look bad, inflexible, hang around, etc.). Yes, pins bent if you were really careless, pulled cables sideways, etc. And you'd straighten them and keep going, even with CPUs. They were more resilient. A bent LGA socket pin today probably kills your motherboard, and might take the CPU with it. Signal integrity and high currents don't leave room to (literally) wiggle. > Absolutely did have to worry if my after market cpu cooler will fit back then Weird, here [0] is a review of coolers of the time, I cannot remember a single time this was a concern, maybe short of a few fancier coolers in very special tiny cases. Today many cases put this on the label, gives away that it's a challenge for many. > And I'm just not ready to accept the argument that thermal paste or BIOS were somehow better in 2001 without some solid evidence I didn't say better, they were simpler/easier. The BIOS of 25 years ago had a handful of settings. A modern UEFI config and the amount of settings exposed to the users is crazy. Worse yet, today the defaults are no longer guaranteed aimed at safe long term operation, they're pushing for good bench results. They come set with high power limits, boost levels, voltages, etc. and this will bite the user later in longevity and stability. As for the paste, reviews added a score for "ease of application", this sends a message. Liquid metals, many modern versions of classic pastes, PTM sheets, there are way more options that are a pain to apply or clean, and in exchange you get top performance. Because there are way more CPUs/GPUs that benefit or demand this. [0] https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Can-t-Touch-This-A-Comparison-of-46-CPU-Coolers,324-11.html https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Can-t-Touch-This-A-Comp...