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Side note, but much as I like Khan Academy overall, I've always struggled with Sal's slow and repetitive speaking style in the videos. "Now you add the five ..

by jbstack 24d ago

Side note, but much as I like Khan Academy overall, I've always struggled with Sal's slow and repetitive speaking style in the videos. "Now you add the five ... [pause] ... add the five ... add the five to the seven ... to the seven..." Running them at 1.5 - 2x helps a bit, but it's still annoying to the point that I find it very distracting.

wafflemaker 24d ago
OTOH creating neural connections takes time. It's a real distance. Small for us, but great for the cells. That's why explaining difficult concepts too fast, while cool for people getting things instantly, is not good for general population.
- jbstack 24d ago
  There's a difference between pacing (good), and repetitive speech (bad). Between pacing and repetitive speech.
  - teiferer 24d ago
    Ironically, spaced repetition is the key to successful learning. Obviously one can overdo it. And there is variance in what people require. But not giving things time, instead giving in to the dopamine-craving, that's killing your learning abilities.
    - jbstack 24d ago
      Repeating a sentence twice in a row during an explanation, is not spaced repetition at all. Spaced repetition means testing recall at increasing intervals, usually starting 1 day apart. "Paris is the capital of France. Paris is the capital of France" -> not spaced repetition. "Paris is the capital of France. [one day later]. What is the capital of France? [three days later] What is the capital of France?" -> spaced repetition. And in fact, it's this plus practice where the real value lies in learning and memorising. The only purpose of an explanation from a teacher is to help you understand the concept. Generally once you understand it once, you don't need to understand it again - unless you forget, and that's where the practice / spaced repetition comes in. That's why I prefer the teaching part to be as efficient as possible, so I can focus my limited time on the parts that will make me internalise it.
- teiferer 24d ago
  I very much agree and it saddens me often when I see folks dial it up to 1.5x or 2x "because it is boring otherwise". They might think they just get as much, only in half the time, but I'd hypothesize that they retain less because the mind needs some time to digest. Similar with the trend to auto-cut pauses that speakers make, just to cram in more text into a youtube video. Destroys not just the pacing but any chance for the mind to take its time. I'd love to see studies about this.
  - jbstack 24d ago
    I don't think you can make blanket statements. Consider: 1. Teacher 1 speaks at 100 words per minute. 2. Teacher 2 speaks at 50 words per minute, for the exact same content as Teacher 1. You're not really losing anything by playing Teacher 1 at normal speed vs Teacher 2 at 2x speed. For every learner, there will be an optimal teaching speed for a given topic. This may mean listening to some audio at normal speed, some at higher speeds, and some even at slower speeds. I always customise my playback speed to the specific content I'm trying to learn.
    - dprkh 24d ago
      It's not about the rate of speaking but rather about what is actually being spoken. I am currently going through the Neetcode DSA course and it's just obnoxious. His video on Union Find, a 15 LoC algorithm, is 20 minutes.
    - teiferer 24d ago
      Those two teachers will rarely say the same words. Chances are, teacher 2 chooses their words more carefully, and gives you then space to absorb that higher information density. In the end, both may communicate the same amount of information.
  - josephg 24d ago
    When I’m understimulated by a teacher, my mind wanders. I’ll start thinking about something else entirely. When my mind comes back, I’ll have missed a couple minutes of content. I can overcome this with willpower, but doing so is exhausting. Playing videos at 1.5-2x fixes the problem entirely. My attention is held without any effort. If a concept is new or difficult enough, I just slow the video back down or pause it whenever I need to think things through.
tptacek 24d ago
I originally learned linear algebra from Gilbert Strang's OCW videos, and I was only able to stick with them by 2x'ing the playback rate; at this point, hearing Strang at his normal speaking rate sounds to me like hearing him after a Robitussin bender.
- josephg 24d ago
  I wish YouTube let you increase the speed of videos past 2x. I play almost everything at 2x now, and I have no problem comprehending videos at that speed. I’d like to try 2.5x or 3x but the ui doesn’t have that option.
  - tptacek 24d ago
    There's a bunch of different chrome extensions that do this, and you can do it yourself from the Chrome console with `$0.playbackRate = 3` or whatever.
  - blackoil 24d ago
    You can do it in YT premium.
    - josephg 24d ago
      Weird thing to put behind a paywall! I'll try some extensions.
  - quitting33 24d ago
    [dead]
  - sylos 24d ago
    I think youtube premium lets you hit up to 4x
homieg33 24d ago
This is exactly what my kid said about why he doesn’t like Kahn academy.
- dprkh 24d ago
  What would you recommend over khan academy?
  - jbstack 24d ago
    I've not tried it myself, but I consistently hear good things about Math Academy. It uses a knowledge graph so that it knows whether you've satisfied prerequisites for a topic, and it adapts itself to your level. I've never taken the plunge because it's very expensive at $49 a month, but it seems to be the one that serious maths learners use. I did the trial of Brilliant the other day. You can get 7 days free, then another 7 days added if you cancel the first trial before the end. After that you can continue to get 2 free lessons per day with ads. I think it's about $20 a month for unlimited lessons. The maths problems are more visual (which makes them quite intuitive) and it has a nicer, more polished UI than Khan Academy. It's easier to stay in the mood for doing more lessons. The main downsides compared to Khan are that the explanations are quite minimal (short descriptions, no videos), and it doesn't reach as advanced a level as Khan. I'm looking at it as more a way to do a refresher on the maths I already learned at school rather than a serious learning tool. If it were $5 a month I'd probably consider subbing for a couple of months and trying to blitz through all the material before switching back to Khan to fill in the gaps.
  - sudo_cowsay 24d ago
    While I am a strong supporter of KA, I just use regular schooling to review and back up what I learned on Khan.
  - rustcleaner 24d ago
    Herbert Gross' lecture style, in MIT Calculus Revisited, would be nice: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3B08AE665AB9002A https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3B08AE665AB9002A https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1C22D4DED943EF7B https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1C22D4DED943EF7B https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD971E94905A70448 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD971E94905A70448
sudo_cowsay 24d ago
While it depends entirely on personal opinion, I believe that it helps significantly. It helps build up the problem/solution from the ground up and he goes through each step out loud to help a student understand. I get that some people hate it and think it is so childish for such simple steps. For other people, it helps a lot. Learning on KA works best if started aat a young age and done consistently (you get used to the style and you learn everything from the ground up).
- jbstack 24d ago
  In my case, it's not so much that I find it childish, it's that I find it incredibly distracting which means I can't focus as easily on the content. Instead of "oh, now I understand how that equation works" I catch myself thinking "why is he repeating the same word over and over - that's so annoying!". Then my brain starts obsessing over "when is he going to do it again?", even though I don't want it to. It's a bit like trying to deliberately ignore something. It becomes all you can think about.
  - sudo_cowsay 24d ago
    Oh ok, got you. While it entirely differs on how different people receive ideas, for me, I just try to keep the end goal in mind (what are we ultimately moving towards) and just think of those repeated words as just small steps rather than just annoying repeating word.
- only-one1701 24d ago
  YMMV but I found the style very helpful
turtlebits 24d ago
It might be annoying if you already know the content. Frame it for the least common denominator (pun intended) - the person who has the time and needs the repetition to pick up a concept.
barrenko 24d ago
Not sure that I'm adding anything to this, or that what I'm saying is even relevant, but Sal does (or did) have a deviated septum, and as someone who suffers from the same / similar root cause of breathing issues, I'm pretty sure speaking is (or was) taxing for him, probably contributing at least mildly to such a style. Personally I like it.

by jbstack 24d ago

wafflemaker 24d ago

OTOH creating neural connections takes time. It's a real distance. Small for us, but great for the cells. That's why explaining difficult concepts too fast, while cool for people getting things instantly, is not good for general population.

jbstack 24d ago
There's a difference between pacing (good), and repetitive speech (bad). Between pacing and repetitive speech.
- teiferer 24d ago
  Ironically, spaced repetition is the key to successful learning. Obviously one can overdo it. And there is variance in what people require. But not giving things time, instead giving in to the dopamine-craving, that's killing your learning abilities.
  - jbstack 24d ago
    Repeating a sentence twice in a row during an explanation, is not spaced repetition at all. Spaced repetition means testing recall at increasing intervals, usually starting 1 day apart. "Paris is the capital of France. Paris is the capital of France" -> not spaced repetition. "Paris is the capital of France. [one day later]. What is the capital of France? [three days later] What is the capital of France?" -> spaced repetition. And in fact, it's this plus practice where the real value lies in learning and memorising. The only purpose of an explanation from a teacher is to help you understand the concept. Generally once you understand it once, you don't need to understand it again - unless you forget, and that's where the practice / spaced repetition comes in. That's why I prefer the teaching part to be as efficient as possible, so I can focus my limited time on the parts that will make me internalise it.
teiferer 24d ago
I very much agree and it saddens me often when I see folks dial it up to 1.5x or 2x "because it is boring otherwise". They might think they just get as much, only in half the time, but I'd hypothesize that they retain less because the mind needs some time to digest. Similar with the trend to auto-cut pauses that speakers make, just to cram in more text into a youtube video. Destroys not just the pacing but any chance for the mind to take its time. I'd love to see studies about this.
- jbstack 24d ago
  I don't think you can make blanket statements. Consider: 1. Teacher 1 speaks at 100 words per minute. 2. Teacher 2 speaks at 50 words per minute, for the exact same content as Teacher 1. You're not really losing anything by playing Teacher 1 at normal speed vs Teacher 2 at 2x speed. For every learner, there will be an optimal teaching speed for a given topic. This may mean listening to some audio at normal speed, some at higher speeds, and some even at slower speeds. I always customise my playback speed to the specific content I'm trying to learn.
  - dprkh 24d ago
    It's not about the rate of speaking but rather about what is actually being spoken. I am currently going through the Neetcode DSA course and it's just obnoxious. His video on Union Find, a 15 LoC algorithm, is 20 minutes.
  - teiferer 24d ago
    Those two teachers will rarely say the same words. Chances are, teacher 2 chooses their words more carefully, and gives you then space to absorb that higher information density. In the end, both may communicate the same amount of information.
- josephg 24d ago
  When I’m understimulated by a teacher, my mind wanders. I’ll start thinking about something else entirely. When my mind comes back, I’ll have missed a couple minutes of content. I can overcome this with willpower, but doing so is exhausting. Playing videos at 1.5-2x fixes the problem entirely. My attention is held without any effort. If a concept is new or difficult enough, I just slow the video back down or pause it whenever I need to think things through.

tptacek 24d ago

I originally learned linear algebra from Gilbert Strang's OCW videos, and I was only able to stick with them by 2x'ing the playback rate; at this point, hearing Strang at his normal speaking rate sounds to me like hearing him after a Robitussin bender.

josephg 24d ago
I wish YouTube let you increase the speed of videos past 2x. I play almost everything at 2x now, and I have no problem comprehending videos at that speed. I’d like to try 2.5x or 3x but the ui doesn’t have that option.
- tptacek 24d ago
  There's a bunch of different chrome extensions that do this, and you can do it yourself from the Chrome console with `$0.playbackRate = 3` or whatever.
- blackoil 24d ago
  You can do it in YT premium.
  - josephg 24d ago
    Weird thing to put behind a paywall! I'll try some extensions.
- quitting33 24d ago
  [dead]
- sylos 24d ago
  I think youtube premium lets you hit up to 4x

homieg33 24d ago

This is exactly what my kid said about why he doesn’t like Kahn academy.

dprkh 24d ago
What would you recommend over khan academy?
- jbstack 24d ago
  I've not tried it myself, but I consistently hear good things about Math Academy. It uses a knowledge graph so that it knows whether you've satisfied prerequisites for a topic, and it adapts itself to your level. I've never taken the plunge because it's very expensive at $49 a month, but it seems to be the one that serious maths learners use. I did the trial of Brilliant the other day. You can get 7 days free, then another 7 days added if you cancel the first trial before the end. After that you can continue to get 2 free lessons per day with ads. I think it's about $20 a month for unlimited lessons. The maths problems are more visual (which makes them quite intuitive) and it has a nicer, more polished UI than Khan Academy. It's easier to stay in the mood for doing more lessons. The main downsides compared to Khan are that the explanations are quite minimal (short descriptions, no videos), and it doesn't reach as advanced a level as Khan. I'm looking at it as more a way to do a refresher on the maths I already learned at school rather than a serious learning tool. If it were $5 a month I'd probably consider subbing for a couple of months and trying to blitz through all the material before switching back to Khan to fill in the gaps.
- sudo_cowsay 24d ago
  While I am a strong supporter of KA, I just use regular schooling to review and back up what I learned on Khan.
- rustcleaner 24d ago
  Herbert Gross' lecture style, in MIT Calculus Revisited, would be nice: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3B08AE665AB9002A https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3B08AE665AB9002A https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1C22D4DED943EF7B https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1C22D4DED943EF7B https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD971E94905A70448 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD971E94905A70448

sudo_cowsay 24d ago

While it depends entirely on personal opinion, I believe that it helps significantly. It helps build up the problem/solution from the ground up and he goes through each step out loud to help a student understand. I get that some people hate it and think it is so childish for such simple steps. For other people, it helps a lot. Learning on KA works best if started aat a young age and done consistently (you get used to the style and you learn everything from the ground up).

jbstack 24d ago
In my case, it's not so much that I find it childish, it's that I find it incredibly distracting which means I can't focus as easily on the content. Instead of "oh, now I understand how that equation works" I catch myself thinking "why is he repeating the same word over and over - that's so annoying!". Then my brain starts obsessing over "when is he going to do it again?", even though I don't want it to. It's a bit like trying to deliberately ignore something. It becomes all you can think about.
- sudo_cowsay 24d ago
  Oh ok, got you. While it entirely differs on how different people receive ideas, for me, I just try to keep the end goal in mind (what are we ultimately moving towards) and just think of those repeated words as just small steps rather than just annoying repeating word.
only-one1701 24d ago
YMMV but I found the style very helpful

turtlebits 24d ago

It might be annoying if you already know the content. Frame it for the least common denominator (pun intended) - the person who has the time and needs the repetition to pick up a concept.

barrenko 24d ago

Not sure that I'm adding anything to this, or that what I'm saying is even relevant, but Sal does (or did) have a deviated septum, and as someone who suffers from the same / similar root cause of breathing issues, I'm pretty sure speaking is (or was) taxing for him, probably contributing at least mildly to such a style. Personally I like it.