8 ms·

I get that the political system could be better, but having been to places that actually are not governed by the rule of law, I can assure you that the US is do

by Taek 26d ago

I get that the political system could be better, but having been to places that actually are not governed by the rule of law, I can assure you that the US is doing quite well on that front. When there is actually no rule of law, consequences include: + entire regions / areas where merely visiting those areas invites a highly non-trivial (think, more than 10% chance) chance of being kidnapped or murdered + every neighborhood and business has substantial, often military-grade private security + if credit exists at all, it exists outside of any formal banking structure and will have interest rates that are north of 30% APR, sometimes north of 100% APR. I've genuinely seen interest rates on credit as high as 2% *per day*, and these are rates that the local population is willing to pay for certain short term expenses (like food) + families that maintain good social relationships with the local police/militants/whoever-has-guns live substantially better lives than people without good social connections to the local authorities. + Travelers are told on repeat: "it's really not safe here for non-locals, you should stay inside and also reconsider being in this part of the world at all" + If the travelers are there for business reasons, they are probably assigned 24/7 armed guards (as many as 4 guards per traveler, each guard carrying full-auto weapons) by the locals, provided for free. And while the US maybe has a neighborhood here or there which might be like this, every part of every major city in the country has more rule of law than the above.

basisword 26d ago
When you can't trust your highest court is impartial the whole system is untrustworthy. Unfortunately the US system is designed in such a way that the highest court can't be trusted (life terms, appointed by the sitting president).
- gottorf 26d ago
  > the highest court can't be trusted (life terms, appointed by the sitting president) Do you really think that judges that have to run for reelection every few years can be more trusted to rule on cases fairly, according to the law, rather than bending to popular whims?
  - basisword 26d ago
    Look at the UK for a much better system. It's got problems too but there's no concept of stacking the court in your favour because you were lucky enough someone died while you were in power.
  - spiderfarmer 26d ago
    The US just has a bad system. It’s easily influenced by money and politics and that’s exactly why the rest of the world considers the US a ruled by money instead of the law.
  - alasdair_ 25d ago
    Yes. The emphasis is on “more” trusted. Supreme court justice positions should be limited to around thirteen (or some other prime number) years and should have mandatory cognitive capacity tests given yearly that are videotaped and broadcast live. The tests should be written by a nonpartisan panel of doctors chosen randomly from an applicant pool like a jury and refreshed every five years.
  - whattheheckheck 24d ago
    You really think someone who didnt speak for decades and gets rvs for gifts and cannot be taken out of office cares about anything other than the soft power social system hes in? Whose wife sent texts about jan 6th insurrection? Bad faith be bad faithing
beremaki 26d ago
Rule of law is when the state's power is effectively limited by law. Rule of law is not about order nor safety
- gottorf 26d ago
  Rule of law is when laws as written by legislators are executed by the government as written and, when appropriate, judged by the judiciary as written, and at each step the words as written supersede the whims and feelings of the people involved. It doesn't imply that the state can't do anything meaningful because it's so hamstrung. Statements like "the US does not have the rule of law" are laughable Reddit-tier comments that just make me sad for the current state of HN.
  - inigyou 26d ago
    Yeah and the US doesn't currently have that.
  - alasdair_ 26d ago
    When the president can just pick the judges he wants and then have them change laws that have existed for decades on a whim, any kind of meaningful rule of law is absent.
  - itsanaccount 26d ago
    Reddit-tier comment, says the guy whos never had his face smashed into the hood of a car by a sheriff deputy. We got something in the US and it often wears robes and badges, but it's not law written by legislatures.
  - cryoshon 26d ago
    The president and his cronies are openly immune to any recourse from the law at the moment. They are doing widespread and overt corruption and insider trading on a daily basis on scales that have never been seen in human history before. There is not any attempt at stopping that by any organ of government. Separately, internal security forces have been killing citizens without any cause nor investigation after the fact, in contravention to all of the supposed "rights" those citizens were once said to have. These are the things the rule of law is about. It is meant to be a higher power than any individual, no matter their position. The U.S. does not have the rule of law any longer. It's best to look the truth in the face rather than hide from it.
inexcf 26d ago
Man while reading your points i was thinking your last sentence will be a sarcastic note that implies that these points all do actually apply to the US. Of course the US as a whole is not comparable to other parts of the world where these points absolutely apply but points 1,2,4 and 5 seem to apply to a significant extent.
- Taek 26d ago
  What parts of the United States can you visit which have a >10% chance of being kidnapped or murdered? That means for every 100 visitors, 10 people don't come home. I honestly don't think that applies to a single neighborhood in the entire country. If murder/kidnapping rates get remotely close to that high, the FBI steps in. I also can't think of any US cities where neighborhoods have military grade armed security. Sure, there are places where every local business has an armed guard, but that's not really the same as hiring a trained private militia. The armed guards are for protecting against petty theft, not for protecting against organized crime. On point four, I'm not sure if there are places in the US where minorities need to maintain relationships social relationships with cops as a survival mechanic, but it certainly doesn't apply to most cities, and I don't think it applies to anyone who is white. On point five, I don't think you understand. There are parts of the world where having white skin will get you, quite literally, reminders every 15 minutes "hey it's really not safe for you here, do you want to hang out inside my shop while I call you a taxi?" No part of the US is like that for travelers. I know there are occasionally ICE raids that make the news, but "hey you strictly cannot be outside without a local chaperone" is just not a thing in the US.
  - alasdair_ 26d ago
    My wife got lost in LA and ended up in Compton. (2 decades ago). She absolutely had people tell her every fifteen minutes she was not safe there and several offered to wait with her while she ordered a taxi. Except none of the taxis ever came so she had to take a bus and a guy came with her just to make sure she didn’t try getting off at the wrong stop. The cops were dressed like SWAT with what looked like full autos (but may not have been) and very forcefully told her she should not be there.
rmah 26d ago
You will never convince those who think the US is a state of lawlessness that the US is (mostly) a lawful, free and prosperous place. They literally cannot comprehend what living in a corrupt and mostly lawless society is like. They've never experienced anything even remotely close to it. It's like someone who grew up in the tropics and complains that they're "freezing to death!" because it's 50F. Someone from the arctic tells them about what real cold is like... they literally cannot understand.
- Frieren 25d ago
  > They literally cannot comprehend what living in a corrupt and mostly lawless society is like. I doubt that most Americans comprehend what is living in a well managed citizens-first country were people are represented and many laws are passed just because the working class wants them. If you compare the USA with the worst places on earth, then it is a good place. I hope that Americans aim higher and want to compare themselves with the best places to live in the world.
  - Nifty3929 25d ago
    What are those best places in the world?
    - ramijames 25d ago
      I usually compare the US to Switzerland. I live in Boston, but was born in Lugano (southern tip of Switzerland). Switzerland has an excellent quality of life, far better education system, remarkable stability, and amazingly good healthcare. The companies pay people well, give them adequate time off, and has 16+ weeks of maternity leave. There are some pretty significant downsides in Switzerland, too. It's highly conservative, hard to make friends with the Swiss, and fairly expensive, depending on where you live. We live in Boston because of family. It's a decent enough place to live, and from my perspective, just about the closest that the US gets to Europe.
      - UltraSane 25d ago
Hilliard_Ohiooo 25d ago
[dead]
roosterIllusi0n 25d ago
Low standards for you doesn't change the higher standards the US is designed to have. People voted very badly by not rejecting republicans. That does not mean those who did not should give up on restoring higher standards. States do have powers too.

by Taek 26d ago

basisword 26d ago

When you can't trust your highest court is impartial the whole system is untrustworthy. Unfortunately the US system is designed in such a way that the highest court can't be trusted (life terms, appointed by the sitting president).

gottorf 26d ago
> the highest court can't be trusted (life terms, appointed by the sitting president) Do you really think that judges that have to run for reelection every few years can be more trusted to rule on cases fairly, according to the law, rather than bending to popular whims?
- basisword 26d ago
  Look at the UK for a much better system. It's got problems too but there's no concept of stacking the court in your favour because you were lucky enough someone died while you were in power.
- spiderfarmer 26d ago
  The US just has a bad system. It’s easily influenced by money and politics and that’s exactly why the rest of the world considers the US a ruled by money instead of the law.
- alasdair_ 25d ago
  Yes. The emphasis is on “more” trusted. Supreme court justice positions should be limited to around thirteen (or some other prime number) years and should have mandatory cognitive capacity tests given yearly that are videotaped and broadcast live. The tests should be written by a nonpartisan panel of doctors chosen randomly from an applicant pool like a jury and refreshed every five years.
- whattheheckheck 24d ago
  You really think someone who didnt speak for decades and gets rvs for gifts and cannot be taken out of office cares about anything other than the soft power social system hes in? Whose wife sent texts about jan 6th insurrection? Bad faith be bad faithing

beremaki 26d ago

Rule of law is when the state's power is effectively limited by law. Rule of law is not about order nor safety

gottorf 26d ago
Rule of law is when laws as written by legislators are executed by the government as written and, when appropriate, judged by the judiciary as written, and at each step the words as written supersede the whims and feelings of the people involved. It doesn't imply that the state can't do anything meaningful because it's so hamstrung. Statements like "the US does not have the rule of law" are laughable Reddit-tier comments that just make me sad for the current state of HN.
- inigyou 26d ago
  Yeah and the US doesn't currently have that.
- alasdair_ 26d ago
  When the president can just pick the judges he wants and then have them change laws that have existed for decades on a whim, any kind of meaningful rule of law is absent.
- itsanaccount 26d ago
  Reddit-tier comment, says the guy whos never had his face smashed into the hood of a car by a sheriff deputy. We got something in the US and it often wears robes and badges, but it's not law written by legislatures.
- cryoshon 26d ago
  The president and his cronies are openly immune to any recourse from the law at the moment. They are doing widespread and overt corruption and insider trading on a daily basis on scales that have never been seen in human history before. There is not any attempt at stopping that by any organ of government. Separately, internal security forces have been killing citizens without any cause nor investigation after the fact, in contravention to all of the supposed "rights" those citizens were once said to have. These are the things the rule of law is about. It is meant to be a higher power than any individual, no matter their position. The U.S. does not have the rule of law any longer. It's best to look the truth in the face rather than hide from it.

inexcf 26d ago

Man while reading your points i was thinking your last sentence will be a sarcastic note that implies that these points all do actually apply to the US. Of course the US as a whole is not comparable to other parts of the world where these points absolutely apply but points 1,2,4 and 5 seem to apply to a significant extent.

Taek 26d ago
What parts of the United States can you visit which have a >10% chance of being kidnapped or murdered? That means for every 100 visitors, 10 people don't come home. I honestly don't think that applies to a single neighborhood in the entire country. If murder/kidnapping rates get remotely close to that high, the FBI steps in. I also can't think of any US cities where neighborhoods have military grade armed security. Sure, there are places where every local business has an armed guard, but that's not really the same as hiring a trained private militia. The armed guards are for protecting against petty theft, not for protecting against organized crime. On point four, I'm not sure if there are places in the US where minorities need to maintain relationships social relationships with cops as a survival mechanic, but it certainly doesn't apply to most cities, and I don't think it applies to anyone who is white. On point five, I don't think you understand. There are parts of the world where having white skin will get you, quite literally, reminders every 15 minutes "hey it's really not safe for you here, do you want to hang out inside my shop while I call you a taxi?" No part of the US is like that for travelers. I know there are occasionally ICE raids that make the news, but "hey you strictly cannot be outside without a local chaperone" is just not a thing in the US.
- alasdair_ 26d ago
  My wife got lost in LA and ended up in Compton. (2 decades ago). She absolutely had people tell her every fifteen minutes she was not safe there and several offered to wait with her while she ordered a taxi. Except none of the taxis ever came so she had to take a bus and a guy came with her just to make sure she didn’t try getting off at the wrong stop. The cops were dressed like SWAT with what looked like full autos (but may not have been) and very forcefully told her she should not be there.

rmah 26d ago

You will never convince those who think the US is a state of lawlessness that the US is (mostly) a lawful, free and prosperous place. They literally cannot comprehend what living in a corrupt and mostly lawless society is like. They've never experienced anything even remotely close to it. It's like someone who grew up in the tropics and complains that they're "freezing to death!" because it's 50F. Someone from the arctic tells them about what real cold is like... they literally cannot understand.

Frieren 25d ago
> They literally cannot comprehend what living in a corrupt and mostly lawless society is like. I doubt that most Americans comprehend what is living in a well managed citizens-first country were people are represented and many laws are passed just because the working class wants them. If you compare the USA with the worst places on earth, then it is a good place. I hope that Americans aim higher and want to compare themselves with the best places to live in the world.
- Nifty3929 25d ago
  What are those best places in the world?
  - ramijames 25d ago
    I usually compare the US to Switzerland. I live in Boston, but was born in Lugano (southern tip of Switzerland). Switzerland has an excellent quality of life, far better education system, remarkable stability, and amazingly good healthcare. The companies pay people well, give them adequate time off, and has 16+ weeks of maternity leave. There are some pretty significant downsides in Switzerland, too. It's highly conservative, hard to make friends with the Swiss, and fairly expensive, depending on where you live. We live in Boston because of family. It's a decent enough place to live, and from my perspective, just about the closest that the US gets to Europe.
    - UltraSane 25d ago

Hilliard_Ohiooo 25d ago

[dead]

roosterIllusi0n 25d ago

Low standards for you doesn't change the higher standards the US is designed to have. People voted very badly by not rejecting republicans. That does not mean those who did not should give up on restoring higher standards. States do have powers too.