6 ms·

What you're comparing is really "keyboard-driven" via "mouse-drive". A GUI can be keyboard-driven and as fast as a TUI. The sad truth is that the status quo fo

What you're comparing is really "keyboard-driven" via "mouse-drive". A GUI can be keyboard-driven and as fast as a TUI. The sad truth is that the status quo for GUIs is absolutely terrible, and most were rushed out and not properly tested to check if they're really usable without a mouse.

lenkite 25d ago
A GUI requires a lot more work to be keyboard-driven and as fast as a TUI.
- okanat 23d ago
  No. Maybe web UIs do. However professional GUI libraries like WinForms, WPF, Qt come with a lot of well defined interfaces for activating menu bar, Alt+<key> combos, tab ordering. Just like TUIs, the developer should take time to program them. It is not a lot of work though. Most of the time it is a simple XML config change.
krzyk 25d ago
Yes, but GUIs are by default mouse driven, very rarely one can see a keyboard driven one (I haven't seen any). And TUIs are only keyboard driven. So the choice for speed if you don't need graphics is always - TUI (or CLI).
- vidarh 25d ago
  > And TUIs are only keyboard driven. Plenty of TUIs support mouse to various extents too. Claude Code is an obvious example (try the scroll wheel for example). I agree with you that TUIs are keyboard driven first though - and so you can be certain it will work well.
- cpach 25d ago
  Emacs is primarily keyboard driven.
  - krzyk 25d ago
    Is there a GUI Emacs? I used only TUI one.
- singpolyma3 25d ago
  A TUI is a GUI.
  - krzyk 20d ago
    TUI and GUI are a UI.
- regularfry 25d ago
  > very rarely one can see a keyboard driven one Not so. GUIs absolutely should be keyboard-drivable, if they're written to the human interface specs of whichever platform they're hosted on. That doesn't mean they don't support being mouse-driven or even that mouse isn't the default, but in my experience if the developer has taken any sort of care with the interface then keyboard interaction will be at least as good, if not better, with the keyboard. > And TUIs are only keyboard driven. Not true either. There's a line in my .vimrc saying "set mouse-=a" specifically because I want to turn off the mouse in that particular TUI app. If a TUI app doesn't support the mouse they've just not added that support, it's not that it's not possible.
- JodieBenitez 25d ago
  > And TUIs are only keyboard driven Absolutely not.
- graemep 25d ago
  A lot of GUIs can be muse driven. The problem is discoverability. You need to go out of your way to learn shortcuts.
- WhyNotHugo 25d ago
  Keyboard-driven GUIs belong in the realm of a lost art called "accessibility", which enabled people with motor issues (amongst many others) to use applications without a mouse. FWIW, most of Windows XP's utilities and included software was perfectly usable with a keyboard alone.
moooo99 25d ago
> The sad truth is that the status quo for GUIs is absolutely terrible, and most were rushed out and not properly tested to check if they're really usable without a mouse. This is the key point. No platform UI paradigm focuses on keyboard navigability and speed, all focus on mouse and visual effects for discoverability in a pursuit to dumb down the user experience enough to make it usable for everyone, breaking power users in the process (and increasingly also accessibility stacks).
- deleted 25d ago
  [deleted]
- yencabulator 24d ago
  They used to. OS/2 and Windows both implemented the very keyboard-oriented CUA and focused on that style of use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access I think the real problem is as computers have become more mainstream, they've become more subject to whims of fashion. Consumer-focused companies don't want to be seen wearing last season's UI paradigm. Just watch Apple change things around...

lenkite 25d ago

A GUI requires a lot more work to be keyboard-driven and as fast as a TUI.

okanat 23d ago
No. Maybe web UIs do. However professional GUI libraries like WinForms, WPF, Qt come with a lot of well defined interfaces for activating menu bar, Alt+<key> combos, tab ordering. Just like TUIs, the developer should take time to program them. It is not a lot of work though. Most of the time it is a simple XML config change.

krzyk 25d ago

Yes, but GUIs are by default mouse driven, very rarely one can see a keyboard driven one (I haven't seen any). And TUIs are only keyboard driven. So the choice for speed if you don't need graphics is always - TUI (or CLI).

vidarh 25d ago
> And TUIs are only keyboard driven. Plenty of TUIs support mouse to various extents too. Claude Code is an obvious example (try the scroll wheel for example). I agree with you that TUIs are keyboard driven first though - and so you can be certain it will work well.
cpach 25d ago
Emacs is primarily keyboard driven.
- krzyk 25d ago
  Is there a GUI Emacs? I used only TUI one.
singpolyma3 25d ago
A TUI is a GUI.
- krzyk 20d ago
  TUI and GUI are a UI.
regularfry 25d ago
> very rarely one can see a keyboard driven one Not so. GUIs absolutely should be keyboard-drivable, if they're written to the human interface specs of whichever platform they're hosted on. That doesn't mean they don't support being mouse-driven or even that mouse isn't the default, but in my experience if the developer has taken any sort of care with the interface then keyboard interaction will be at least as good, if not better, with the keyboard. > And TUIs are only keyboard driven. Not true either. There's a line in my .vimrc saying "set mouse-=a" specifically because I want to turn off the mouse in that particular TUI app. If a TUI app doesn't support the mouse they've just not added that support, it's not that it's not possible.
JodieBenitez 25d ago
> And TUIs are only keyboard driven Absolutely not.
graemep 25d ago
A lot of GUIs can be muse driven. The problem is discoverability. You need to go out of your way to learn shortcuts.
WhyNotHugo 25d ago
Keyboard-driven GUIs belong in the realm of a lost art called "accessibility", which enabled people with motor issues (amongst many others) to use applications without a mouse. FWIW, most of Windows XP's utilities and included software was perfectly usable with a keyboard alone.

moooo99 25d ago

> The sad truth is that the status quo for GUIs is absolutely terrible, and most were rushed out and not properly tested to check if they're really usable without a mouse. This is the key point. No platform UI paradigm focuses on keyboard navigability and speed, all focus on mouse and visual effects for discoverability in a pursuit to dumb down the user experience enough to make it usable for everyone, breaking power users in the process (and increasingly also accessibility stacks).

deleted 25d ago
[deleted]
yencabulator 24d ago
They used to. OS/2 and Windows both implemented the very keyboard-oriented CUA and focused on that style of use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access I think the real problem is as computers have become more mainstream, they've become more subject to whims of fashion. Consumer-focused companies don't want to be seen wearing last season's UI paradigm. Just watch Apple change things around...