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Did you include meeting with a therapist? The problem is that they have to reveal you things you don't generally want to admit, so it takes a bit of time (time

Did you include meeting with a therapist? The problem is that they have to reveal you things you don't generally want to admit, so it takes a bit of time (time which I find absolutely wasted) and depending on the therapist, they might not tell you immediately about your inconsistencies.

bitexploder 26d ago
The problem I have with modern therapy is it that it operates completely within the frame of oneself. They will very carefully walk with you inside of your own narrative, bringing you to a better place of operation within that framework of the self. Having thought about it some, I have been concluded that there’s only so far one can get when operating within that narrative. There’s only so much they can help with until you yourself can see that the “I” is it itself a machine generating the narrative, but also something else and more than just that narrative that is constantly running in our brains. It is something that can be observed. The observer is the observed as Krishnamurti would say. As long time meditator, I find that there is nothing that is hidden from ourselves if we look. Meditation is one of the few ways to begin to access the whole and step outside of the narrative loop. You can also try psychedelics, but that’s riskier. A good trip might save you a decade of therapy. A bad one might genuinely imbalance your brains machinery. In some sense, the time is wasted. However, if you genuinely spend this time learning to observe yourself, this is very much a way of being that is not wasted in my opinion. A therapist is generally going to work with you inside of a particular framework and way of stepping towards a particular way of operating. It sort of like the long or hard way of solving a math problem before you learned underlying theory of whatever problem you were working on.
- viccy-kobuletti 25d ago
  You put very well into words why therapy felt off for me. I haven't been meditating for too long, but the perspective definitely shifts once you start turning the attention inwards, instead of following the narrative that the mind creates. My recommendation to any of those interested: The Mind Illuminated by John Yates. Great intro to the meditation practice. Once you have some understanding of the general technique Goenka's 10 day vipassana courses is a great opportunity for deep introspective work.
- eastbound 25d ago
  True, I have not fully understood the direction therapists go to, apart from expliciting your thought process. My interpretation of therapy is that it helps you feel aligned with you. It will remove the surface contradictions and counter-actions. But if your deeper you has concluded that you should be evil (assuming there is no contradictions in this view - and there always is), therapy will probably help you too. As long as you are aligned with yourself. They prioritize you. Not the others.
  - bitexploder 25d ago
    There is something incredibly important about a therapist I would not discard. And that is the human connection. We are hard wired for this and most often what people need out of a therapist is being seen. Another human being to fully and unerringly see you. To get to know you well enough to simulate /your/ thought loop and reflect it back to you, potentially with some meaningful observations. But that knowing that some other human sees you is mostly what therapy is about to me, some exceptions, of course, but in general Also: incompleteness theorem again. The system cannot fully observe itself. A close friend can also do this too. In fact they are better at it than a therapist if you are open with the friend. Also evil is a moral inclination and hard to discuss easily in this frame. Very little that is inherent in our machinery is disinclined towards evil or good. As social animals we must teach those values and hold them up. Different discussion :)

bitexploder 26d ago

The problem I have with modern therapy is it that it operates completely within the frame of oneself. They will very carefully walk with you inside of your own narrative, bringing you to a better place of operation within that framework of the self. Having thought about it some, I have been concluded that there’s only so far one can get when operating within that narrative. There’s only so much they can help with until you yourself can see that the “I” is it itself a machine generating the narrative, but also something else and more than just that narrative that is constantly running in our brains. It is something that can be observed. The observer is the observed as Krishnamurti would say. As long time meditator, I find that there is nothing that is hidden from ourselves if we look. Meditation is one of the few ways to begin to access the whole and step outside of the narrative loop. You can also try psychedelics, but that’s riskier. A good trip might save you a decade of therapy. A bad one might genuinely imbalance your brains machinery. In some sense, the time is wasted. However, if you genuinely spend this time learning to observe yourself, this is very much a way of being that is not wasted in my opinion. A therapist is generally going to work with you inside of a particular framework and way of stepping towards a particular way of operating. It sort of like the long or hard way of solving a math problem before you learned underlying theory of whatever problem you were working on.

viccy-kobuletti 25d ago
You put very well into words why therapy felt off for me. I haven't been meditating for too long, but the perspective definitely shifts once you start turning the attention inwards, instead of following the narrative that the mind creates. My recommendation to any of those interested: The Mind Illuminated by John Yates. Great intro to the meditation practice. Once you have some understanding of the general technique Goenka's 10 day vipassana courses is a great opportunity for deep introspective work.
eastbound 25d ago
True, I have not fully understood the direction therapists go to, apart from expliciting your thought process. My interpretation of therapy is that it helps you feel aligned with you. It will remove the surface contradictions and counter-actions. But if your deeper you has concluded that you should be evil (assuming there is no contradictions in this view - and there always is), therapy will probably help you too. As long as you are aligned with yourself. They prioritize you. Not the others.
- bitexploder 25d ago
  There is something incredibly important about a therapist I would not discard. And that is the human connection. We are hard wired for this and most often what people need out of a therapist is being seen. Another human being to fully and unerringly see you. To get to know you well enough to simulate /your/ thought loop and reflect it back to you, potentially with some meaningful observations. But that knowing that some other human sees you is mostly what therapy is about to me, some exceptions, of course, but in general Also: incompleteness theorem again. The system cannot fully observe itself. A close friend can also do this too. In fact they are better at it than a therapist if you are open with the friend. Also evil is a moral inclination and hard to discuss easily in this frame. Very little that is inherent in our machinery is disinclined towards evil or good. As social animals we must teach those values and hold them up. Different discussion :)