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> A wiped phone can't contain contraband There is no requirement that evidence is "contraband". As other comments have said, the courts aren't autistic. They

by refurb 26d ago

> A wiped phone can't contain contraband There is no requirement that evidence is "contraband". As other comments have said, the courts aren't autistic. They don't fall for filly semantic games.

convolvatron 25d ago
this is a nonsense statement. yes, unfortunately format logic is wholly inadequate to express what we need in the creation and application of laws. so yes, fuzzy issues about the intent of the law and the intent of the accused some into play, along with a healthy schmear of cultural norms. but to say that the laws and precedence aren't largely concerned with building some semantic context, and that lawyers don't build chains of reasoning in that framework to prophet their positions is absolute nonsense. you're positing a world where a judge just rules entirely on feels, and I think most judges would be quite offended by that notion.
- refurb 25d ago
  Sure lawyers rely on semantics. But I said “silly semantics”. Claiming that destroying evidence of a crime proves no crime was committed is the logic of a 1 year old who thinks the world disappears when they close their eyes. A lawyer can go into court and argue semantics around the edges but isn’t going to get very far using semantics to argue destroying evidence also erases a crime.
  - TheCoelacanth 25d ago
    The border search exemption can't be used for general purpose law enforcement; only for determining if the person should be allowed to enter the country (inapplicable to citizens) and for preventing countraband from entering the country. A wiped phone cannot contain contraband data, so the border search exemption cannot apply.
    - convolvatron 24d ago
      this seems like a very similar situation to people charged with only a single count of 'resisting arrest'
TheCoelacanth 25d ago
In general, there is not. For the border search exemption to allow a warrantless search of a citizen, the only legitimate grounds are preventing countraband from entering the country.

by refurb 26d ago

> A wiped phone can't contain contraband There is no requirement that evidence is "contraband". As other comments have said, the courts aren't autistic. They don't fall for filly semantic games.

convolvatron 25d ago

this is a nonsense statement. yes, unfortunately format logic is wholly inadequate to express what we need in the creation and application of laws. so yes, fuzzy issues about the intent of the law and the intent of the accused some into play, along with a healthy schmear of cultural norms. but to say that the laws and precedence aren't largely concerned with building some semantic context, and that lawyers don't build chains of reasoning in that framework to prophet their positions is absolute nonsense. you're positing a world where a judge just rules entirely on feels, and I think most judges would be quite offended by that notion.

refurb 25d ago
Sure lawyers rely on semantics. But I said “silly semantics”. Claiming that destroying evidence of a crime proves no crime was committed is the logic of a 1 year old who thinks the world disappears when they close their eyes. A lawyer can go into court and argue semantics around the edges but isn’t going to get very far using semantics to argue destroying evidence also erases a crime.
- TheCoelacanth 25d ago
  The border search exemption can't be used for general purpose law enforcement; only for determining if the person should be allowed to enter the country (inapplicable to citizens) and for preventing countraband from entering the country. A wiped phone cannot contain contraband data, so the border search exemption cannot apply.
  - convolvatron 24d ago
    this seems like a very similar situation to people charged with only a single count of 'resisting arrest'

TheCoelacanth 25d ago

In general, there is not. For the border search exemption to allow a warrantless search of a citizen, the only legitimate grounds are preventing countraband from entering the country.