6 ms·

We're just not at that stage yet, but we're getting there. It's already a crime (in the books) to drive out of several red states for women's health care reaso

We're just not at that stage yet, but we're getting there. It's already a crime (in the books) to drive out of several red states for women's health care reasons, and they'll follow you on flock if they can. Mark Bray had his and his family's airline tickets to Spain out of Newark "mysteriously cancelled" while in line after checking in their baggage.

unclebucknasty 28d ago
I sometimes wonder what the tipping point is for people, or whether there actually is one for many. It's as if they are looking for an exacting duplicate of previous regimes before they become concerned—the agency name must be "Stasi" and uniforms must be of the same color.
- detourdog 28d ago
  I think we have to wait for our moment of protest to arrive. We should keep our eyes open for opportunities for civil disobedience.
  - inigyou 27d ago
    The moment never happens. It happened in all other descents to fascism, just like this one, that people kept waiting for the moment to protest and it never came and eventually it was too late.
    - detourdog 27d ago
      I disagree that it never happens Rosa Parks is one example.
      - inigyou 26d ago
        Great example! Rosa Parks was an organised effort by an organised resistance group. She was not just one woman who decided to get on the wrong end of the bus one day.
        detourdog 25d ago
        Whatever it takes.
    - dredmorbius 27d ago
      Or the protest was ruthlessly crushed. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose>
- TimTheTinker 27d ago
  If US citizens can expect that if they write, post, publish, or say something critical of the government they'll get arrested for it, that's the line.
- inigyou 27d ago
  The Rubicon is always still ahead of us, until it has been quite obviously behind us for quite some time. Nobody ever admits the moment of crossing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFdwfNh5vs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFdwfNh5vs
detourdog 28d ago
Definitely it can always be worse and I think we need to break ridiculous laws. I know nothing about Mark Bray but that is a ridiculous thing that should adjudicated.
tialaramex 28d ago
Yeah, I wrote about this on HN before. Americans tend to imagine that WW2 ends and then East Germany immediately puts up a wall and now nobody can leave but it was way more gradual than that. The year the European war ended you could just walk across the border, you'd need to show some ID but you have ID because it was the war and Germans issued everybody with ID in the war. The Allies are manning the borders, they want to arrest Nazis, so ID saying you're a Nazi is a bad idea, but if you're just some farmer from outside Leipzig (so East Germany) you can easily cross. More than a Million people flee West. Are they foolish? You already know the answer. By the end of the 1940s, things are tightening up, there are now armed "police" who in effect work for the Soviets "protecting" East Germany at the border, barbed wire and deep trenches now block unofficial crossings, but it is still definitely possible to leave, in the worst case maybe you bribe a guard. Hundreds of thousands are able to flee by "just" walking (or driving) West. In 1952 the "Special Regime" begins to "keep out spies". Most of the border is sealed, you can't bribe your way when there is no official crossing, the remaining guards are told to shoot people who try to cross, after all none of them are legitimate. However since Berlin still has a crossing, and the West still seems hell bent on holding their half despite the fact it's cut off from the world, you could travel to East Berlin and sneak across to West Berlin. Over the next decade or so millions do, East Germany tried very hard to stop this, but because it was physically possible it seemed like there wasn't much they could do... In 1961 they built the wall. It was no longer physically possible to escape.
- inigyou 27d ago
  The USA has already cancelled all passports of trans people, so they can't leave. I wonder who will be next.
  - detourdog 27d ago
    I know they cancelled these passports but can anyone describe how they specifically communicated to our effected citizens?
- inigyou 27d ago
  I was told the famous Berlin crossing is called Checkpoint Charlie because checkpoint Alpha was on the Iron Wall (the one dividing Germany) and checkpoint Bravo was midway. At each checkpoint they would note the time. If you didn't make it to each checkpoint at exactly the right time they would consider that you'd stopped to do something illegal in between (you were only allowed to drive straight from the iron wall to Berlin), and you would be disappeared.

unclebucknasty 28d ago

I sometimes wonder what the tipping point is for people, or whether there actually is one for many. It's as if they are looking for an exacting duplicate of previous regimes before they become concerned—the agency name must be "Stasi" and uniforms must be of the same color.

detourdog 28d ago
I think we have to wait for our moment of protest to arrive. We should keep our eyes open for opportunities for civil disobedience.
- inigyou 27d ago
  The moment never happens. It happened in all other descents to fascism, just like this one, that people kept waiting for the moment to protest and it never came and eventually it was too late.
  - detourdog 27d ago
    I disagree that it never happens Rosa Parks is one example.
    - inigyou 26d ago
      Great example! Rosa Parks was an organised effort by an organised resistance group. She was not just one woman who decided to get on the wrong end of the bus one day.
      - detourdog 25d ago
        Whatever it takes.
  - dredmorbius 27d ago
    Or the protest was ruthlessly crushed. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose>
TimTheTinker 27d ago
If US citizens can expect that if they write, post, publish, or say something critical of the government they'll get arrested for it, that's the line.
inigyou 27d ago
The Rubicon is always still ahead of us, until it has been quite obviously behind us for quite some time. Nobody ever admits the moment of crossing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFdwfNh5vs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFdwfNh5vs

detourdog 28d ago

Definitely it can always be worse and I think we need to break ridiculous laws. I know nothing about Mark Bray but that is a ridiculous thing that should adjudicated.

tialaramex 28d ago

Yeah, I wrote about this on HN before. Americans tend to imagine that WW2 ends and then East Germany immediately puts up a wall and now nobody can leave but it was way more gradual than that. The year the European war ended you could just walk across the border, you'd need to show some ID but you have ID because it was the war and Germans issued everybody with ID in the war. The Allies are manning the borders, they want to arrest Nazis, so ID saying you're a Nazi is a bad idea, but if you're just some farmer from outside Leipzig (so East Germany) you can easily cross. More than a Million people flee West. Are they foolish? You already know the answer. By the end of the 1940s, things are tightening up, there are now armed "police" who in effect work for the Soviets "protecting" East Germany at the border, barbed wire and deep trenches now block unofficial crossings, but it is still definitely possible to leave, in the worst case maybe you bribe a guard. Hundreds of thousands are able to flee by "just" walking (or driving) West. In 1952 the "Special Regime" begins to "keep out spies". Most of the border is sealed, you can't bribe your way when there is no official crossing, the remaining guards are told to shoot people who try to cross, after all none of them are legitimate. However since Berlin still has a crossing, and the West still seems hell bent on holding their half despite the fact it's cut off from the world, you could travel to East Berlin and sneak across to West Berlin. Over the next decade or so millions do, East Germany tried very hard to stop this, but because it was physically possible it seemed like there wasn't much they could do... In 1961 they built the wall. It was no longer physically possible to escape.

inigyou 27d ago
The USA has already cancelled all passports of trans people, so they can't leave. I wonder who will be next.
- detourdog 27d ago
  I know they cancelled these passports but can anyone describe how they specifically communicated to our effected citizens?
inigyou 27d ago
I was told the famous Berlin crossing is called Checkpoint Charlie because checkpoint Alpha was on the Iron Wall (the one dividing Germany) and checkpoint Bravo was midway. At each checkpoint they would note the time. If you didn't make it to each checkpoint at exactly the right time they would consider that you'd stopped to do something illegal in between (you were only allowed to drive straight from the iron wall to Berlin), and you would be disappeared.