6 ms·

The US / common law jurisdictions typically only have very light self-incrimination protections. The 5th amendment in the US only protects against self-incrimin

The US / common law jurisdictions typically only have very light self-incrimination protections. The 5th amendment in the US only protects against self-incriminating testimonial. That's it. In most other jurisdictions (i.e. civil law) it's perfectly legal for the accused to destroy evidence (assuming you're not committing any other crimes in doing so, like breaking and entering, property crime etc.), seizure being ordered or not, while it remains illegal to destroy evidence at the behest of someone else. I.e. civil law usually doesn't criminalize self-protective conduct. That's true even in e.g. Japan.

thrawa8387336 25d ago
Correct me but in civil law even intent is treated very different or non-existent
fluoridation 26d ago
That's interesting. Where can I read more about this?
- formerly_proven 26d ago
  Non-US-centric legal topics are surprisingly often a blind spot in enwiki, this is one of them. In civil law the core principle for this is "nemo tenetur (se ipsum accusare)", but the reifications are wildly different in the jurisdictions. Here are some examples: - Japan (South Korea has practically the same law word-for-word): https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/3581/en#je_pt2ch7at2 https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/3581/e... ("...relating to a criminal case of another person" i.e. this is not applicable if you do it in your own case). Likewise article 103, harboring is not illegal if you're related. - Germany: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p2423 https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_st... (this also includes harboring and makes it not illegal for family, which is a typical provision in civilized law) - The usual suspects, Italy, Poland, Austria (of course), Switzerland, ... even the Russian criminal code has pretty much the same provisions - Also the usual suspects: France ("guilletoine them all") and UK (common law) do not have this Curiously, China quite closely matches the US. This is essentially one aspect of Hobbesian self-preservation, I don't believe enwiki even mentions this idea anywhere. Another aspect of self-preservation is that -obviously- the mere act of escaping from prison or evading arrest can't be a criminal offense, and to varying degrees civil law jurisdictions recognize that.
  - fluoridation 25d ago
    Huh. The Spanish Wikipedia doesn't mention it either, just has a brief blurb somewhere defining the Latin phrase.

thrawa8387336 25d ago

Correct me but in civil law even intent is treated very different or non-existent

fluoridation 26d ago

That's interesting. Where can I read more about this?

formerly_proven 26d ago
Non-US-centric legal topics are surprisingly often a blind spot in enwiki, this is one of them. In civil law the core principle for this is "nemo tenetur (se ipsum accusare)", but the reifications are wildly different in the jurisdictions. Here are some examples: - Japan (South Korea has practically the same law word-for-word): https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/3581/en#je_pt2ch7at2 https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/3581/e... ("...relating to a criminal case of another person" i.e. this is not applicable if you do it in your own case). Likewise article 103, harboring is not illegal if you're related. - Germany: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p2423 https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_st... (this also includes harboring and makes it not illegal for family, which is a typical provision in civilized law) - The usual suspects, Italy, Poland, Austria (of course), Switzerland, ... even the Russian criminal code has pretty much the same provisions - Also the usual suspects: France ("guilletoine them all") and UK (common law) do not have this Curiously, China quite closely matches the US. This is essentially one aspect of Hobbesian self-preservation, I don't believe enwiki even mentions this idea anywhere. Another aspect of self-preservation is that -obviously- the mere act of escaping from prison or evading arrest can't be a criminal offense, and to varying degrees civil law jurisdictions recognize that.
- fluoridation 25d ago
  Huh. The Spanish Wikipedia doesn't mention it either, just has a brief blurb somewhere defining the Latin phrase.