7 ms·

Voting is where the rubber meets the road. If they don't vote like they care, then they don't care for all intents and purposes.

voakbasda 26d ago
Voting is choose between two terrible candidates, neither of which represent the majority of any group’s interests. No one ever elected has delivered 100% satisfaction to the majority of their constituents.
- summerdown2 26d ago
  > Voting is choose between two terrible candidates This framing makes it seem like the candidates are identically terrible. Which is never the case.
  - voakbasda 26d ago
    Correct. They each offer their own unique flavor of extreme terrible.
    - Gormo 26d ago
      And are able to capitalize on the fact that some voters are more afraid of terrible outcome A than terrible outcome B, and others are the reverse, to shoehorn both A and B into policy.
- stouset 26d ago
  Edited this after the fact to reduce the intensity of my tone. This “both sides” nonsense is not particularly convincing when one party literally has masked goons on the street sending people extrajudicially to concentration camps.
- amavect 26d ago
  A reminder to support approval voting, star voting, and proportional voting so we can end the 2 party system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhO6jfHPFQU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhO6jfHPFQU https://www.equal.vote/ https://www.equal.vote/
  - Gormo 26d ago
    Approval voting is reasonable, but a ranked-choice ballot with either IRV or a Condorcet tabulation would be better. Proportional representation would be catastrophically worse than the status quo.
    - amavect 24d ago
      Ranked choice is not better. It has the center squeeze effect.
      - ClayShentrup 23d ago
        this! https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representation-fallacy-553846a383b3 https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representat...
    - ClayShentrup 23d ago
      no, it would not be better. see voter satisfaction efficiency metrics from monte carlo simulation here. https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representation-fallacy-553846a383b3 https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representat...
  - ClayShentrup 23d ago
    score voting is simpler and better than STAR voting in every way, and approval voting is radically simpler and better in most scenarios. https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-only-voting-reform-worth-funding-5776beefdd2b https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-only-voting-reform-worth... and PR is a red herring. https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representation-fallacy-553846a383b3 https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representat...
    - amavect 21d ago
      Thanks for sharing! I love approval voting the most by pure simplicity and effectiveness. How does score voting work better than STAR? I thought STAR degenerates into score voting when clone candidates run? I haven't heard much of an argument against proportional voting before. Your article just casts doubt, but doesn't really make a decisive argument against. I actually don't like proportional voting because it reifies parties into the system, but I only support it because I think it can break the party duopoly and step towards better systems. I should rethink that.
Sohcahtoa82 26d ago
No candidate is going to perfectly match your desires. So voting becomes a measurement of where your priorities lie. Of course, media and the candidates themselves will use propaganda to manipulate your priorities. Right-wing media has done a great job convincing people that the greatest threat to them are trans women in women's sports and illegal immigrants.
- stouset 26d ago
  Given that the Republicans claim to be the “party of personal responsibility”, I utterly reject this attempt to frame its voters as the poor and unfortunate victims of manipulation and choose instead to hold them personally responsible.
  - mindslight 26d ago
    Like most marketing you can basically invert it to arrive at the truth. Republican propaganda continually harps on about personal responsibility because Republican voters are lacking it and desperately wish they had some. The propaganda is a coping mechanism.
stouset 26d ago
In other words, “the point of a system is what it does” applies to humans as well.
s1artibartfast 26d ago
Alternatively, they can care about principles and issues that differ from that of the other party.

voakbasda 26d ago

Voting is choose between two terrible candidates, neither of which represent the majority of any group’s interests. No one ever elected has delivered 100% satisfaction to the majority of their constituents.

summerdown2 26d ago
> Voting is choose between two terrible candidates This framing makes it seem like the candidates are identically terrible. Which is never the case.
- voakbasda 26d ago
  Correct. They each offer their own unique flavor of extreme terrible.
  - Gormo 26d ago
    And are able to capitalize on the fact that some voters are more afraid of terrible outcome A than terrible outcome B, and others are the reverse, to shoehorn both A and B into policy.
stouset 26d ago
Edited this after the fact to reduce the intensity of my tone. This “both sides” nonsense is not particularly convincing when one party literally has masked goons on the street sending people extrajudicially to concentration camps.
amavect 26d ago
A reminder to support approval voting, star voting, and proportional voting so we can end the 2 party system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhO6jfHPFQU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhO6jfHPFQU https://www.equal.vote/ https://www.equal.vote/
- Gormo 26d ago
  Approval voting is reasonable, but a ranked-choice ballot with either IRV or a Condorcet tabulation would be better. Proportional representation would be catastrophically worse than the status quo.
  - amavect 24d ago
    Ranked choice is not better. It has the center squeeze effect.
    - ClayShentrup 23d ago
      this! https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representation-fallacy-553846a383b3 https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representat...
  - ClayShentrup 23d ago
    no, it would not be better. see voter satisfaction efficiency metrics from monte carlo simulation here. https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representation-fallacy-553846a383b3 https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representat...
- ClayShentrup 23d ago
  score voting is simpler and better than STAR voting in every way, and approval voting is radically simpler and better in most scenarios. https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-only-voting-reform-worth-funding-5776beefdd2b https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-only-voting-reform-worth... and PR is a red herring. https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representation-fallacy-553846a383b3 https://clayshentrup.medium.com/the-proportional-representat...
  - amavect 21d ago
    Thanks for sharing! I love approval voting the most by pure simplicity and effectiveness. How does score voting work better than STAR? I thought STAR degenerates into score voting when clone candidates run? I haven't heard much of an argument against proportional voting before. Your article just casts doubt, but doesn't really make a decisive argument against. I actually don't like proportional voting because it reifies parties into the system, but I only support it because I think it can break the party duopoly and step towards better systems. I should rethink that.

Sohcahtoa82 26d ago

No candidate is going to perfectly match your desires. So voting becomes a measurement of where your priorities lie. Of course, media and the candidates themselves will use propaganda to manipulate your priorities. Right-wing media has done a great job convincing people that the greatest threat to them are trans women in women's sports and illegal immigrants.

stouset 26d ago
Given that the Republicans claim to be the “party of personal responsibility”, I utterly reject this attempt to frame its voters as the poor and unfortunate victims of manipulation and choose instead to hold them personally responsible.
- mindslight 26d ago
  Like most marketing you can basically invert it to arrive at the truth. Republican propaganda continually harps on about personal responsibility because Republican voters are lacking it and desperately wish they had some. The propaganda is a coping mechanism.

stouset 26d ago

In other words, “the point of a system is what it does” applies to humans as well.

s1artibartfast 26d ago

Alternatively, they can care about principles and issues that differ from that of the other party.